Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-05-2011 | 08:36 AM
Get's Every Day Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,864
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From: Retired
Bidding
Looking over bid package for Oct and SAL is now on the 320 list. Where is SAL? Not on "My Crew Guide" yet, and all of my pubs are on the airplane now! 
09-05-2011 | 08:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,457
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From: LAX ERA
09-05-2011 | 09:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
Good post ftb. I agree.
Many have noted the death of the "Delta family" and indeed, that cultural mindset has been systematically erased from the property starting with Ron Allen and "Leadership 7.5" right through Mullin, Grinstein and bankruptcy. But I'd like to think it can still be revived. I know it still lives in the hearts and minds of much of the workforce. The beatings from our past corporate overlords were relentless, but guys still push wheelchairs and fetch strollers.
Bringing that spirit back will require some visionary leadership and a commitment to treat people as assets rather than costs.
Many have noted the death of the "Delta family" and indeed, that cultural mindset has been systematically erased from the property starting with Ron Allen and "Leadership 7.5" right through Mullin, Grinstein and bankruptcy. But I'd like to think it can still be revived. I know it still lives in the hearts and minds of much of the workforce. The beatings from our past corporate overlords were relentless, but guys still push wheelchairs and fetch strollers.
Bringing that spirit back will require some visionary leadership and a commitment to treat people as assets rather than costs.
Yet we pilots tend to be romantics in that we want to believe in that kind of airline(s) again. Maybe that's how we are wired. I think that is where a lot of "Delta pride" or "SWA koolaid" or whatever you want to call it comes from. "My airline can beat up your airline" is as emotionally fascinating to us now as the "my dad can beat up your dad" mentality as kids. We all know we benefit from pattern bargaining and that a rising tide raises all boats, but we all want to be on a winning team.
So there is some level of hope that RA, who is undoubtedly very smart in general and particularly in this industry, will be worth his exponentially ballistic airline executive compensation and restore the new Delta to its rightful place, if not its outright manifest destiny, of greatness and industry dominance.
And so we forge ahead with "constructive engagement" which in and of itself isn't a bad thing,...as long as we have internal checks and balances and ways to evaluate the progress of this methodology and more importantly, a non emotional "exit stratedgy" for the day its clear that it isn't working.
You could argue that we gave the company an extension of a bankruptcy emergency 9-11 crisis survival contract to facilitate a merger and build the new Delta or whatever. OK, fine. Water under the bridge, although Ron Allen's 7.5 water under the bridge caused a lot of erosion as well as Grinstein's "do it once and do it right" and Leo the CEO's sequential billion dollar blunders which were rewared with insanely inappropriate compensation packages. But we are very close to the next chapter so where do we go from here? Does management and/or the union really believe such an emergency crisis contract is now the new norm, only to be adjusted by cost of living adjustments painted as "raises"?
We want to believe in our company (and RA and his team in particular), and we want to believe in ourselves (ALPA or DPA, but right now its mostly ALPA either outrightly or by active indifference). But who will watch the watchers?
We are agressively outsourcing the bottom end of our flying by continuing to subsidize a fare trashing competitor (Republic air group) even recently by giving them additional planes. Forget for a moment the potential scope violation or the legal malpractice that went into crafting rediculous language in the first place that even makes this a gray area. Why is our beloved and esteemed company and RA in particular doing this?
We sell CPZ to the TSA air group, which is bad enough, but then we hire one of the worst cut throat predatory bargaining labor busting airlines in modern outsourcing history. TSA has 100 seaters on order and when asked who they intend on flying them for, they laugh and say they will get future scope relief from someone. Are we not supposed to connect these potential dots? Why is our beloved and esteemed company and the supremely talented RA so deserving of our followship in particular doing this? Are we actually trying to run a global airline, or is it just "merge shrink outsource, repeat"?
On the eve of openers and with the dawn of C12K's ammendable date soon upon us, we are starting to get hassled for sick calls. We got an awesome new commuter policy, which was almost immediately laced with threatening inuendo and borderline harassment for even daring to use it. RA supposedly "puts on his game face" whenever we hint at talking about money.
The Alaska code share is flat out being abused and we are adding every available international airline to our sky "team" as fast as we can mail them pens and agreements and unless we order 747-800's and/or 380's, both of which seem highly unlikely, it appears we will eventually be out of the 4 engine jet business...at least with our pilots at the controls.
And there seems to be a mentality among our representatives that we can't/won't get scope back, never mind not even being able to grasp the elementary differences between inflationary cost of living adjustments and a "raise over the life of" a contract.
Hope and faith for a better tomorrow is great. It really is. But "by their deeds you shall know them" and that goes for the company as well as the union. Its important that we continue to watch the watchers and call things as we see them.
A good start is when C12K is here, its vital that we understand that a 4 or 5 year contract is at least a 20-30% loss via cost of living. We must back that amount out of any and all claims of "a raise over the life of" nonsense.
Maybe RA is as awesome as some want to believe. But should we continue to trust any airline executive in advance? Or is it more reasonable to be cautious of all of their intentions until they prove otherwise by their actions?
09-05-2011 | 09:05 AM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
In other news, I spotted NewK's airport car in the employee lot yesterday:
(yes, apparently they built a wal mart at the employee lot... just got with it.)
Last edited by 80ktsClamp; 09-05-2011 at 09:34 AM.
09-05-2011 | 09:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 0
From: DAL Pilot
I *sniff sniff* am *(choking back the tears) leaving Sao Paulo tonight...
Click here. But skip the first couple of pics.
Or try one.
This is at our layover hotel.
Click here. But skip the first couple of pics.
Or try one.
This is at our layover hotel.
09-05-2011 | 09:49 AM
Underboob King
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,412
Likes: 0
From: Guppy Commander
DL used to have one of (if not the) best reputations among customers for service and over all competency. Needless to say, that has faded significantly over the tenures you mentioned, right along with the executive frenzy of rampant outsourcing. NW was synonymous knowing how to run a global route structure and dominating the competition wherever it chose to do so.
Yet we pilots tend to be romantics in that we want to believe in that kind of airline(s) again. Maybe that's how we are wired. I think that is where a lot of "Delta pride" or "SWA koolaid" or whatever you want to call it comes from. "My airline can beat up your airline" is as emotionally fascinating to us now as the "my dad can beat up your dad" mentality as kids. We all know we benefit from pattern bargaining and that a rising tide raises all boats, but we all want to be on a winning team.
So there is some level of hope that RA, who is undoubtedly very smart in general and particularly in this industry, will be worth his exponentially ballistic airline executive compensation and restore the new Delta to its rightful place, if not its outright manifest destiny, of greatness and industry dominance.
And so we forge ahead with "constructive engagement" which in and of itself isn't a bad thing,...as long as we have internal checks and balances and ways to evaluate the progress of this methodology and more importantly, a non emotional "exit stratedgy" for the day its clear that it isn't working.
You could argue that we gave the company an extension of a bankruptcy emergency 9-11 crisis survival contract to facilitate a merger and build the new Delta or whatever. OK, fine. Water under the bridge, although Ron Allen's 7.5 water under the bridge caused a lot of erosion as well as Grinstein's "do it once and do it right" and Leo the CEO's sequential billion dollar blunders which were rewared with insanely inappropriate compensation packages. But we are very close to the next chapter so where do we go from here? Does management and/or the union really believe such an emergency crisis contract is now the new norm, only to be adjusted by cost of living adjustments painted as "raises"?
We want to believe in our company (and RA and his team in particular), and we want to believe in ourselves (ALPA or DPA, but right now its mostly ALPA either outrightly or by active indifference). But who will watch the watchers?
We are agressively outsourcing the bottom end of our flying by continuing to subsidize a fare trashing competitor (Republic air group) even recently by giving them additional planes. Forget for a moment the potential scope violation or the legal malpractice that went into crafting rediculous language in the first place that even makes this a gray area. Why is our beloved and esteemed company and RA in particular doing this?
We sell CPZ to the TSA air group, which is bad enough, but then we hire one of the worst cut throat predatory bargaining labor busting airlines in modern outsourcing history. TSA has 100 seaters on order and when asked who they intend on flying them for, they laugh and say they will get future scope relief from someone. Are we not supposed to connect these potential dots? Why is our beloved and esteemed company and the supremely talented RA so deserving of our followship in particular doing this? Are we actually trying to run a global airline, or is it just "merge shrink outsource, repeat"?
On the eve of openers and with the dawn of C12K's ammendable date soon upon us, we are starting to get hassled for sick calls. We got an awesome new commuter policy, which was almost immediately laced with threatening inuendo and borderline harassment for even daring to use it. RA supposedly "puts on his game face" whenever we hint at talking about money.
The Alaska code share is flat out being abused and we are adding every available international airline to our sky "team" as fast as we can mail them pens and agreements and unless we order 747-800's and/or 380's, both of which seem highly unlikely, it appears we will eventually be out of the 4 engine jet business...at least with our pilots at the controls.
And there seems to be a mentality among our representatives that we can't/won't get scope back, never mind not even being able to grasp the elementary differences between inflationary cost of living adjustments and a "raise over the life of" a contract.
Hope and faith for a better tomorrow is great. It really is. But "by their deeds you shall know them" and that goes for the company as well as the union. Its important that we continue to watch the watchers and call things as we see them.
A good start is when C12K is here, its vital that we understand that a 4 or 5 year contract is at least a 20-30% loss via cost of living. We must back that amount out of any and all claims of "a raise over the life of" nonsense.
Maybe RA is as awesome as some want to believe. But should we continue to trust any airline executive in advance? Or is it more reasonable to be cautious of all of their intentions until they prove otherwise by their actions?
Yet we pilots tend to be romantics in that we want to believe in that kind of airline(s) again. Maybe that's how we are wired. I think that is where a lot of "Delta pride" or "SWA koolaid" or whatever you want to call it comes from. "My airline can beat up your airline" is as emotionally fascinating to us now as the "my dad can beat up your dad" mentality as kids. We all know we benefit from pattern bargaining and that a rising tide raises all boats, but we all want to be on a winning team.
So there is some level of hope that RA, who is undoubtedly very smart in general and particularly in this industry, will be worth his exponentially ballistic airline executive compensation and restore the new Delta to its rightful place, if not its outright manifest destiny, of greatness and industry dominance.
And so we forge ahead with "constructive engagement" which in and of itself isn't a bad thing,...as long as we have internal checks and balances and ways to evaluate the progress of this methodology and more importantly, a non emotional "exit stratedgy" for the day its clear that it isn't working.
You could argue that we gave the company an extension of a bankruptcy emergency 9-11 crisis survival contract to facilitate a merger and build the new Delta or whatever. OK, fine. Water under the bridge, although Ron Allen's 7.5 water under the bridge caused a lot of erosion as well as Grinstein's "do it once and do it right" and Leo the CEO's sequential billion dollar blunders which were rewared with insanely inappropriate compensation packages. But we are very close to the next chapter so where do we go from here? Does management and/or the union really believe such an emergency crisis contract is now the new norm, only to be adjusted by cost of living adjustments painted as "raises"?
We want to believe in our company (and RA and his team in particular), and we want to believe in ourselves (ALPA or DPA, but right now its mostly ALPA either outrightly or by active indifference). But who will watch the watchers?
We are agressively outsourcing the bottom end of our flying by continuing to subsidize a fare trashing competitor (Republic air group) even recently by giving them additional planes. Forget for a moment the potential scope violation or the legal malpractice that went into crafting rediculous language in the first place that even makes this a gray area. Why is our beloved and esteemed company and RA in particular doing this?
We sell CPZ to the TSA air group, which is bad enough, but then we hire one of the worst cut throat predatory bargaining labor busting airlines in modern outsourcing history. TSA has 100 seaters on order and when asked who they intend on flying them for, they laugh and say they will get future scope relief from someone. Are we not supposed to connect these potential dots? Why is our beloved and esteemed company and the supremely talented RA so deserving of our followship in particular doing this? Are we actually trying to run a global airline, or is it just "merge shrink outsource, repeat"?
On the eve of openers and with the dawn of C12K's ammendable date soon upon us, we are starting to get hassled for sick calls. We got an awesome new commuter policy, which was almost immediately laced with threatening inuendo and borderline harassment for even daring to use it. RA supposedly "puts on his game face" whenever we hint at talking about money.
The Alaska code share is flat out being abused and we are adding every available international airline to our sky "team" as fast as we can mail them pens and agreements and unless we order 747-800's and/or 380's, both of which seem highly unlikely, it appears we will eventually be out of the 4 engine jet business...at least with our pilots at the controls.
And there seems to be a mentality among our representatives that we can't/won't get scope back, never mind not even being able to grasp the elementary differences between inflationary cost of living adjustments and a "raise over the life of" a contract.
Hope and faith for a better tomorrow is great. It really is. But "by their deeds you shall know them" and that goes for the company as well as the union. Its important that we continue to watch the watchers and call things as we see them.
A good start is when C12K is here, its vital that we understand that a 4 or 5 year contract is at least a 20-30% loss via cost of living. We must back that amount out of any and all claims of "a raise over the life of" nonsense.
Maybe RA is as awesome as some want to believe. But should we continue to trust any airline executive in advance? Or is it more reasonable to be cautious of all of their intentions until they prove otherwise by their actions?
09-05-2011 | 09:52 AM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
DL used to have one of (if not the) best reputations among customers for service and over all competency. Needless to say, that has faded significantly over the tenures you mentioned, right along with the executive frenzy of rampant outsourcing. NW was synonymous knowing how to run a global route structure and dominating the competition wherever it chose to do so.
Yet we pilots tend to be romantics in that we want to believe in that kind of airline(s) again. Maybe that's how we are wired. I think that is where a lot of "Delta pride" or "SWA koolaid" or whatever you want to call it comes from. "My airline can beat up your airline" is as emotionally fascinating to us now as the "my dad can beat up your dad" mentality as kids. We all know we benefit from pattern bargaining and that a rising tide raises all boats, but we all want to be on a winning team.
So there is some level of hope that RA, who is undoubtedly very smart in general and particularly in this industry, will be worth his exponentially ballistic airline executive compensation and restore the new Delta to its rightful place, if not its outright manifest destiny, of greatness and industry dominance.
And so we forge ahead with "constructive engagement" which in and of itself isn't a bad thing,...as long as we have internal checks and balances and ways to evaluate the progress of this methodology and more importantly, a non emotional "exit stratedgy" for the day its clear that it isn't working.
You could argue that we gave the company an extension of a bankruptcy emergency 9-11 crisis survival contract to facilitate a merger and build the new Delta or whatever. OK, fine. Water under the bridge, although Ron Allen's 7.5 water under the bridge caused a lot of erosion as well as Grinstein's "do it once and do it right" and Leo the CEO's sequential billion dollar blunders which were rewared with insanely inappropriate compensation packages. But we are very close to the next chapter so where do we go from here? Does management and/or the union really believe such an emergency crisis contract is now the new norm, only to be adjusted by cost of living adjustments painted as "raises"?
We want to believe in our company (and RA and his team in particular), and we want to believe in ourselves (ALPA or DPA, but right now its mostly ALPA either outrightly or by active indifference). But who will watch the watchers?
We are agressively outsourcing the bottom end of our flying by continuing to subsidize a fare trashing competitor (Republic air group) even recently by giving them additional planes. Forget for a moment the potential scope violation or the legal malpractice that went into crafting rediculous language in the first place that even makes this a gray area. Why is our beloved and esteemed company and RA in particular doing this?
We sell CPZ to the TSA air group, which is bad enough, but then we hire one of the worst cut throat predatory bargaining labor busting airlines in modern outsourcing history. TSA has 100 seaters on order and when asked who they intend on flying them for, they laugh and say they will get future scope relief from someone. Are we not supposed to connect these potential dots? Why is our beloved and esteemed company and the supremely talented RA so deserving of our followship in particular doing this? Are we actually trying to run a global airline, or is it just "merge shrink outsource, repeat"?
On the eve of openers and with the dawn of C12K's ammendable date soon upon us, we are starting to get hassled for sick calls. We got an awesome new commuter policy, which was almost immediately laced with threatening inuendo and borderline harassment for even daring to use it. RA supposedly "puts on his game face" whenever we hint at talking about money.
The Alaska code share is flat out being abused and we are adding every available international airline to our sky "team" as fast as we can mail them pens and agreements and unless we order 747-800's and/or 380's, both of which seem highly unlikely, it appears we will eventually be out of the 4 engine jet business...at least with our pilots at the controls.
And there seems to be a mentality among our representatives that we can't/won't get scope back, never mind not even being able to grasp the elementary differences between inflationary cost of living adjustments and a "raise over the life of" a contract.
Hope and faith for a better tomorrow is great. It really is. But "by their deeds you shall know them" and that goes for the company as well as the union. Its important that we continue to watch the watchers and call things as we see them.
A good start is when C12K is here, its vital that we understand that a 4 or 5 year contract is at least a 20-30% loss via cost of living. We must back that amount out of any and all claims of "a raise over the life of" nonsense.
Maybe RA is as awesome as some want to believe. But should we continue to trust any airline executive in advance? Or is it more reasonable to be cautious of all of their intentions until they prove otherwise by their actions?
Yet we pilots tend to be romantics in that we want to believe in that kind of airline(s) again. Maybe that's how we are wired. I think that is where a lot of "Delta pride" or "SWA koolaid" or whatever you want to call it comes from. "My airline can beat up your airline" is as emotionally fascinating to us now as the "my dad can beat up your dad" mentality as kids. We all know we benefit from pattern bargaining and that a rising tide raises all boats, but we all want to be on a winning team.
So there is some level of hope that RA, who is undoubtedly very smart in general and particularly in this industry, will be worth his exponentially ballistic airline executive compensation and restore the new Delta to its rightful place, if not its outright manifest destiny, of greatness and industry dominance.
And so we forge ahead with "constructive engagement" which in and of itself isn't a bad thing,...as long as we have internal checks and balances and ways to evaluate the progress of this methodology and more importantly, a non emotional "exit stratedgy" for the day its clear that it isn't working.
You could argue that we gave the company an extension of a bankruptcy emergency 9-11 crisis survival contract to facilitate a merger and build the new Delta or whatever. OK, fine. Water under the bridge, although Ron Allen's 7.5 water under the bridge caused a lot of erosion as well as Grinstein's "do it once and do it right" and Leo the CEO's sequential billion dollar blunders which were rewared with insanely inappropriate compensation packages. But we are very close to the next chapter so where do we go from here? Does management and/or the union really believe such an emergency crisis contract is now the new norm, only to be adjusted by cost of living adjustments painted as "raises"?
We want to believe in our company (and RA and his team in particular), and we want to believe in ourselves (ALPA or DPA, but right now its mostly ALPA either outrightly or by active indifference). But who will watch the watchers?
We are agressively outsourcing the bottom end of our flying by continuing to subsidize a fare trashing competitor (Republic air group) even recently by giving them additional planes. Forget for a moment the potential scope violation or the legal malpractice that went into crafting rediculous language in the first place that even makes this a gray area. Why is our beloved and esteemed company and RA in particular doing this?
We sell CPZ to the TSA air group, which is bad enough, but then we hire one of the worst cut throat predatory bargaining labor busting airlines in modern outsourcing history. TSA has 100 seaters on order and when asked who they intend on flying them for, they laugh and say they will get future scope relief from someone. Are we not supposed to connect these potential dots? Why is our beloved and esteemed company and the supremely talented RA so deserving of our followship in particular doing this? Are we actually trying to run a global airline, or is it just "merge shrink outsource, repeat"?
On the eve of openers and with the dawn of C12K's ammendable date soon upon us, we are starting to get hassled for sick calls. We got an awesome new commuter policy, which was almost immediately laced with threatening inuendo and borderline harassment for even daring to use it. RA supposedly "puts on his game face" whenever we hint at talking about money.
The Alaska code share is flat out being abused and we are adding every available international airline to our sky "team" as fast as we can mail them pens and agreements and unless we order 747-800's and/or 380's, both of which seem highly unlikely, it appears we will eventually be out of the 4 engine jet business...at least with our pilots at the controls.
And there seems to be a mentality among our representatives that we can't/won't get scope back, never mind not even being able to grasp the elementary differences between inflationary cost of living adjustments and a "raise over the life of" a contract.
Hope and faith for a better tomorrow is great. It really is. But "by their deeds you shall know them" and that goes for the company as well as the union. Its important that we continue to watch the watchers and call things as we see them.
A good start is when C12K is here, its vital that we understand that a 4 or 5 year contract is at least a 20-30% loss via cost of living. We must back that amount out of any and all claims of "a raise over the life of" nonsense.
Maybe RA is as awesome as some want to believe. But should we continue to trust any airline executive in advance? Or is it more reasonable to be cautious of all of their intentions until they prove otherwise by their actions?
Carl
09-05-2011 | 09:53 AM
Get's Every Day Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,864
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From: Retired
Thanks
Thanks for the info...I knew I could count on the LAGAD thread! 
09-05-2011 | 10:13 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
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