Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-13-2011 | 10:51 AM
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Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
Would the government allow more consolidation?
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
And when Ferd wins, we all win.
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
And when Ferd wins, we all win.
09-13-2011 | 10:57 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Here is the news. Today was Delta's briefing to the Deutsche Bank AG conference. Just as ACL said.
it still seems like objective signs that scope negotiations are in play for the 100 seat jet. The dots are:
As always, hope that I am wrong. Already tired of being at an ever shrinking airline. In the past, airlines matched GDP growth. If that were true, we would be about 8 to 10% larger in 2012 (using GDP since bankruptcy exit as the benchmark).
Hopefully Sailing or Slow will be along soon to tell us that I'm full of crap and the cuts are RJ's, (which I am sure is partly true).
Delta Plans Seat Cuts, American Joins Pullback
By Mary Schlangenstein and Mary Jane Credeur - Sep 13, 2011
Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) will shrink seating capacity in 2012 to cut operating costs, and American Airlines is joining an industry pullback in flights for the end of this year.
Delta’s available seating next year will fall by 2 percent to 3 percent, the Atlanta-based carrier said today in a regulatory filing. American said next quarter’s trims will pare flying by 0.5 percent, and plans for 2012 are now under review. The Bloomberg U.S. Airlines Index jumped the most in a month.
“If a recession does pop and we start to see demand reductions, we’ll be prepared for it,” Delta President Ed Bastian said at a Deutsche Bank AG conference in New York.
Paring capacity can be a positive step for airlines, both in savings from operating expenses and in pricing power for a smaller supply of seats. United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL), the world’s largest carrier, and No. 2 Delta unveiled their end-of- year retrenchments earlier.
United’s capacity will be unchanged next year, with a planned drop in domestic seats balanced by increases in overseas flying, Chief Executive Officer Jeffery Smisek said at the conference.
“If we had a material decrease in demand or a material increase in input prices, we would shrink” in 2012, Smisek said.
Airlines Rally
The Bloomberg airlines index jumped as much as 7 percent for its biggest intraday advance since Aug. 9, led by US Airways Group Inc. (LCC) The Tempe, Arizona-based airline soared 94 cents, or 19 percent, to $5.79 at 1:55 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading, the most since September 2009.
American parent AMR Corp. (AMR) climbed 17 cents, or 5.2 percent, to $3.44, and Delta climbed 61 cents, or 8.3 percent, to $7.99. United rose $1.45, or 8.1 percent, to $19.41.
US Airways President Scott Kirby told analysts and investors that air-travel demand appears to be disconnected from global economic events such as the European credit crisis that might have eroded airlines’ business in the past.
“We don’t see any evidence yet of a slowdown,” Kirby said. “We’ve seen a strong demand environment from mid-July through yesterday.”
Lower-Demand Days
American’s pullback includes reductions that began in August that reduce flying by varying amounts on lower-demand travel days, Treasurer Beverly Goulet said at the conference. The cuts include a 13 percent drop on Saturdays, according to an American presentation for investors.
“Although advance bookings are generally in line, we are taking the step in light of the mixed economic environment and to make sure we run a smooth operation given additional pilot retirements we expect this fall,” Goulet said. Pilots were asked to voluntarily delay September vacations to avoid shortages after 111 retirements at the end of August exceeded expectations.
The Fort Worth, Texas-based airline had held off on disclosing fourth-quarter capacity changes as Delta decided in July to deepen its capacity reduction to 5 percent after the peak summer travel season, up from a planned 4 percent cut, and United chopped available seats by 4 percent.
Delta’s projected cut in 2012 flying builds on savings steps such as buyout and early retirement offers that were accepted this year by more than 2,000 employees. The airline also said this month it is eliminating 200 administrative jobs.
Delta Stands Pat
Bastian confirmed today that Delta has no plans for a purchase of smaller single-aisle jets after agreeing last month to buy 100 Boeing Co. (BA) 737s with a catalog value of $8.5 billion.
Delta had been in talks with Embraer SA (EMBR3) and Bombardier Inc. about planes that would complement its Boeing and Airbus SAS narrow-body jets, according to people familiar with the matter who weren’t authorized to speak publicly. One person said last month that the Embraer and Bombardier discussions had been tabled until at least 2012.
“I want to put to rest as to whether there is a second tranche,” Bastian said today. “We are done talking about aircraft for the near to medium term, be it with Bombardier or Embraer or Boeing or Airbus. We’re very comfortable with where we are for the next several years.”
American also said Hurricane Irene reduced revenue by about $25 million and that third-quarter unit revenue, a measure of sales for each seat flown a mile, will rise by about 7 percent from a year earlier.
Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV), the largest low-fare carrier, said Irene reduced revenue by about $6.5 million.
By Mary Schlangenstein and Mary Jane Credeur - Sep 13, 2011
Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) will shrink seating capacity in 2012 to cut operating costs, and American Airlines is joining an industry pullback in flights for the end of this year.
Delta’s available seating next year will fall by 2 percent to 3 percent, the Atlanta-based carrier said today in a regulatory filing. American said next quarter’s trims will pare flying by 0.5 percent, and plans for 2012 are now under review. The Bloomberg U.S. Airlines Index jumped the most in a month.
“If a recession does pop and we start to see demand reductions, we’ll be prepared for it,” Delta President Ed Bastian said at a Deutsche Bank AG conference in New York.
Paring capacity can be a positive step for airlines, both in savings from operating expenses and in pricing power for a smaller supply of seats. United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL), the world’s largest carrier, and No. 2 Delta unveiled their end-of- year retrenchments earlier.
United’s capacity will be unchanged next year, with a planned drop in domestic seats balanced by increases in overseas flying, Chief Executive Officer Jeffery Smisek said at the conference.
“If we had a material decrease in demand or a material increase in input prices, we would shrink” in 2012, Smisek said.
Airlines Rally
The Bloomberg airlines index jumped as much as 7 percent for its biggest intraday advance since Aug. 9, led by US Airways Group Inc. (LCC) The Tempe, Arizona-based airline soared 94 cents, or 19 percent, to $5.79 at 1:55 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading, the most since September 2009.
American parent AMR Corp. (AMR) climbed 17 cents, or 5.2 percent, to $3.44, and Delta climbed 61 cents, or 8.3 percent, to $7.99. United rose $1.45, or 8.1 percent, to $19.41.
US Airways President Scott Kirby told analysts and investors that air-travel demand appears to be disconnected from global economic events such as the European credit crisis that might have eroded airlines’ business in the past.
“We don’t see any evidence yet of a slowdown,” Kirby said. “We’ve seen a strong demand environment from mid-July through yesterday.”
Lower-Demand Days
American’s pullback includes reductions that began in August that reduce flying by varying amounts on lower-demand travel days, Treasurer Beverly Goulet said at the conference. The cuts include a 13 percent drop on Saturdays, according to an American presentation for investors.
“Although advance bookings are generally in line, we are taking the step in light of the mixed economic environment and to make sure we run a smooth operation given additional pilot retirements we expect this fall,” Goulet said. Pilots were asked to voluntarily delay September vacations to avoid shortages after 111 retirements at the end of August exceeded expectations.
The Fort Worth, Texas-based airline had held off on disclosing fourth-quarter capacity changes as Delta decided in July to deepen its capacity reduction to 5 percent after the peak summer travel season, up from a planned 4 percent cut, and United chopped available seats by 4 percent.
Delta’s projected cut in 2012 flying builds on savings steps such as buyout and early retirement offers that were accepted this year by more than 2,000 employees. The airline also said this month it is eliminating 200 administrative jobs.
Delta Stands Pat
Bastian confirmed today that Delta has no plans for a purchase of smaller single-aisle jets after agreeing last month to buy 100 Boeing Co. (BA) 737s with a catalog value of $8.5 billion.
Delta had been in talks with Embraer SA (EMBR3) and Bombardier Inc. about planes that would complement its Boeing and Airbus SAS narrow-body jets, according to people familiar with the matter who weren’t authorized to speak publicly. One person said last month that the Embraer and Bombardier discussions had been tabled until at least 2012.
“I want to put to rest as to whether there is a second tranche,” Bastian said today. “We are done talking about aircraft for the near to medium term, be it with Bombardier or Embraer or Boeing or Airbus. We’re very comfortable with where we are for the next several years.”
American also said Hurricane Irene reduced revenue by about $25 million and that third-quarter unit revenue, a measure of sales for each seat flown a mile, will rise by about 7 percent from a year earlier.
Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV), the largest low-fare carrier, said Irene reduced revenue by about $6.5 million.
- Talks with the largest manufacturers of "regional" jets
- Many reports of Requests for Proposals from pilots at "Connection" carriers
- Types already in operation at Regional Carriers with established training programs
- Contract 2012
- Demographics of the Delta seniority list
As always, hope that I am wrong. Already tired of being at an ever shrinking airline. In the past, airlines matched GDP growth. If that were true, we would be about 8 to 10% larger in 2012 (using GDP since bankruptcy exit as the benchmark).
Hopefully Sailing or Slow will be along soon to tell us that I'm full of crap and the cuts are RJ's, (which I am sure is partly true).
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-13-2011 at 11:51 AM.
09-13-2011 | 10:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
Likes: 1
From: Urban chicken rancher.
Would the government allow more consolidation?
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
09-13-2011 | 11:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
If Bar is right...
Then this industry has truly gone into it's jenga phase. Don't anyone screw up the status quo, don't grow into markets other airlines own and they won't retaliate.
If you need to make money, make it off the back of your employees.
100 seat jets? Aren't these like the 76 seat jets in that Delta doesn't want them, BUT will order in mass as long as Delta's own employees promise not to touch them?
The good news though Bar is Delta is not shrinking, if they can get us to give up scope to keep pilots from being furloughed then they can expand mightily with 100 seat regional jets at what was once formally called Delta Connection (but is now just referred to as Delta) and furlough pilots anyways. Or maybe not furlough, just let attrition take its course and don't hire.
I think Hockey once mentioned at 9 years in the company he will have only moved up 1000 numbers if that according to the predictions. If we lose 100 seat jets to DCI then my bet is pilots at 90% will be at 90% in 2020.
I hope too Bar that Slow shows up and tells you you're wrong... and that he's right. Nothing personal.
Then this industry has truly gone into it's jenga phase. Don't anyone screw up the status quo, don't grow into markets other airlines own and they won't retaliate.
If you need to make money, make it off the back of your employees.
100 seat jets? Aren't these like the 76 seat jets in that Delta doesn't want them, BUT will order in mass as long as Delta's own employees promise not to touch them?
The good news though Bar is Delta is not shrinking, if they can get us to give up scope to keep pilots from being furloughed then they can expand mightily with 100 seat regional jets at what was once formally called Delta Connection (but is now just referred to as Delta) and furlough pilots anyways. Or maybe not furlough, just let attrition take its course and don't hire.
I think Hockey once mentioned at 9 years in the company he will have only moved up 1000 numbers if that according to the predictions. If we lose 100 seat jets to DCI then my bet is pilots at 90% will be at 90% in 2020.
I hope too Bar that Slow shows up and tells you you're wrong... and that he's right. Nothing personal.
09-13-2011 | 11:15 AM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
Would the government allow more consolidation?
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
And when Ferd wins, we all win.
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
And when Ferd wins, we all win.
I hate to speculate to a certain level because I get accused of knowing something, but I really cannot see us acquiring anything more than assets from LCC. Maybe a few pilots and other personnel with the deal, but I cannot see us buying PHL. It would make sense for us to buy and shut down CLT, but that would be costly.
What I really see is AMR, and LCC along with B6. LCC's international assets would be sold, AMR's MIA hub would be paired down and maybe some sold off. Other those routes will moved to CLT where there would be better connecting traffic. MIA would still be a big player for AMR, but CLT would be the money maker. With this three way tie up, AMR/LCC would not need B6's JFK terminal and frankly that is what DAL needs.
Some signs of a shift to CLT is/are the slot authorities to SA we gave them in the slot deal.
We have had a horrible time with the slot swap, B6 may make some sense for DAL, but the synergies and product premium that B6 gets would make the deal a wash for DAL after the fight and slot loss that would ensue. Winning the terminal is imo DAL's goal. If you recall two years ago when the terminal upgrade was announced, I stated then, that this look like half of the plan. B6's terminal in JFK is what I would call the second half of the plan.
09-13-2011 | 11:17 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
Would the government allow more consolidation?
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
And when Ferd wins, we all win.
I could see if LCC was split in two but if we acquired CLT/PHL Lord help us. We'd acquire LCC and shut down CLT and then one day PHL but we'd keep NYC! Which we already have anyways.
But none of this would happen before we get the seniority list together and then of course the LCC pilots would want DOH and then to vote out ALPA. Boy doesn't that just sound like fun!
Or we acquire the America West pilots, who want relative seniority. We get PHX, Ferd would be ecstatic.
So really the only real winners here is Ferd.
And when Ferd wins, we all win.
Down the road, if LCC divests its two halves in order to maximize shareholder value, I see the possibility of us somehow getting our (and their) DCA slots back (at possibly a bargain). There is very little likelihood of us picking up other pieces IMO...not enough bang for the hassle.
I would guess that likely dance partners for us continue to be Hawaiian and AK, in that order. Hawaiian has a compatible fleet...If we order A350s, then it will just be a matter of time. 717s hmmm.
Of course I'm just spitballin' here, but it makes sense to me.
09-13-2011 | 11:25 AM
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From: Light Chop
Ftb:
I hate to speculate to a certain level because I get accused of knowing something, but I really cannot see us acquiring anything more than assets from LCC. Maybe a few pilots and other personnel with the deal, but I cannot see us buying PHL. It would make sense for us to buy and shut down CLT, but that would be costly.
What I really see is AMR, and LCC along with B6. LCC's international assets would be sold, AMR's MIA hub would be paired down and maybe some sold off. Other those routes will moved to CLT where there would be better connecting traffic. MIA would still be a big player for AMR, but CLT would be the money maker. With this three way tie up, AMR/LCC would not need B6's JFK terminal and frankly that is what DAL needs.
Some signs of a shift to CLT is/are the slot authorities to SA we gave them in the slot deal.
We have had a horrible time with the slot swap, B6 may make some sense for DAL, but the synergies and product premium that B6 gets would make the deal a wash for DAL after the fight and slot loss that would ensue. Winning the terminal is imo DAL's goal. If you recall two years ago when the terminal upgrade was announced, I stated then, that this look like half of the plan. B6's terminal in JFK is what I would call the second half of the plan.
I hate to speculate to a certain level because I get accused of knowing something, but I really cannot see us acquiring anything more than assets from LCC. Maybe a few pilots and other personnel with the deal, but I cannot see us buying PHL. It would make sense for us to buy and shut down CLT, but that would be costly.
What I really see is AMR, and LCC along with B6. LCC's international assets would be sold, AMR's MIA hub would be paired down and maybe some sold off. Other those routes will moved to CLT where there would be better connecting traffic. MIA would still be a big player for AMR, but CLT would be the money maker. With this three way tie up, AMR/LCC would not need B6's JFK terminal and frankly that is what DAL needs.
Some signs of a shift to CLT is/are the slot authorities to SA we gave them in the slot deal.
We have had a horrible time with the slot swap, B6 may make some sense for DAL, but the synergies and product premium that B6 gets would make the deal a wash for DAL after the fight and slot loss that would ensue. Winning the terminal is imo DAL's goal. If you recall two years ago when the terminal upgrade was announced, I stated then, that this look like half of the plan. B6's terminal in JFK is what I would call the second half of the plan.
I could see us getting LCC A330s.
DAL + B6 seems unnecessarily complicated to me but I'm kind of confused. If the JFK upgrade to T2/T3/T4 was half the plan then was the plan to unseat them from T5/T6?
09-13-2011 | 11:39 AM
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From: A-320A
I could see CLT being great for AMR. I think we then need to go back to DFW.
I could see us getting LCC A330s.
DAL + B6 seems unnecessarily complicated to me but I'm kind of confused. If the JFK upgrade to T2/T3/T4 was half the plan then was the plan to unseat them from T5/T6?
I could see us getting LCC A330s.
DAL + B6 seems unnecessarily complicated to me but I'm kind of confused. If the JFK upgrade to T2/T3/T4 was half the plan then was the plan to unseat them from T5/T6?
09-13-2011 | 11:39 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Well ... read Bastian's memo and the good news is a 9 to 11% operating margin. That's historically great and doing it in this economy is something to applaud.
Also good to note Roger and Doug were in attendance and recognized right off the bat.
Also good to note Roger and Doug were in attendance and recognized right off the bat.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-13-2011 at 12:00 PM.
09-13-2011 | 11:47 AM
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I could see CLT being great for AMR. I think we then need to go back to DFW.
I could see us getting LCC A330s.
DAL + B6 seems unnecessarily complicated to me but I'm kind of confused. If the JFK upgrade to T2/T3/T4 was half the plan then was the plan to unseat them from T5/T6?
I could see us getting LCC A330s.
DAL + B6 seems unnecessarily complicated to me but I'm kind of confused. If the JFK upgrade to T2/T3/T4 was half the plan then was the plan to unseat them from T5/T6?
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