The irony is, 20 years ago, management of "legacy" carriers pointed at SWA and said, "we need you pilots to match SWA's pilots' contract!". Now, ALPA would be ecstatic to win a SWA contract.

GF

Wow, any other obviously well-known fact you want to bestow upon us??? :eek:

Here I'll join in: The sky is blue...Chili gives you gas....Cars go fast....

We interrupt your regular bit&*ing and moaning to bring you an important service announcement. October is just a few days away....... Drink beer and be merry!!!


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IDK, 50 seat airplanes have clearly become a negative and are being removed from the fleet at a rapid rate. Large RJs(70 & 76 seaters) are limited to 255 with only 153 of those allowed to be 76 seaters. It's likely at the least that the line will be held, so I think we are seeing a large reduction in DCI flying.

That's how the industry goes. This isn't earth shattering. UPS back in the 80's would've loved higher rates from better airlines. It's part of the cyclical nature of the airline industry.

I agree with Hoserpilot!

I got one more or you....

Being a smartass wins no favors.

I agree we are, at least in part, with this issue. But he brought it up relative to an older point that relates to it which I brought up and I felt compelled to respond.

I understand what you're saying and agree with most of it. But sticking to this particular topic, I think we can all agree that, if we wanted to, we could have had language to stop outsourcing to RAH if RAH operated any "non permitted types" anywhere in their holding company.

To say we can't because DL operates "non permitted types" so DL is the "mainline" and ASA/CMR/RAH/MAG/TSA/CPZ/etc, on other certificates are the "conections" so we therefore must let all connections operate non permitted types as long as they are on a separate certificate is ludicrous. Non permitted means by another group. Obviously we can operate "non permitted" types with our pilot group at whatever certificate the company wants if that was how they wanted to structure it.

I agree with you and Joe that ALPA didn't handle the situation very well back in 2000. I would also add that all 3 of the MEC's, not just the DL MEC, dropped the ball, to some degree out of pure emotion and pure ego (and yes that applies to the CMR and ASA MEC's as well) and we are all worse off for it. The CMR and ASA MEC's 100% thought they were going to force an arbitrated seniority list with DL mainline. 100%. I heard it from them personally and saw it in writing from some of their respective PID (soon to become) RJDC Q&A handouts. And I saw the arrogance (on both sides, but for some reason its only OK to talk about DL arrogance during that time) but the fact remains that DL mis-steps aside, the ASA/CMR MEC's "went for it" and lost. The DL MEC had no choice but to go on the defensive with the ridiculous operational integration re-defining and blah blah blah here we all are and we are all worse off.

Now CMR is literally being drawn and quartered down to nothing and ASA will follow one day. Even mega growth through consolidation doesn't mean much at the outsource industry because they will always be another group of hungry young bucks ready to buy their jet time by any means necessary. New companies will be created out of nothing with everyone at super low pay and first year everything if thats what it takes to make sure regionals never truly get very much pricing power. Yet going it alone as a regional is an almost 0% chance of success, even with a lot of start up capital and an employee group that drinks the koolaid.

And yet Joe continues to think it is our chickens coming home to roost and he is in some sort of drivers seat at some young money new world era of aviation powerhouses that is the future while we keep transferring work to him that he then somehow owns permanently because scope is a one way check valve that benefits ACMI contractors for all eternity and there's nothing we can do about it. I beg to differ.

And yes, ALPA continues to make errors.

Oberboobfest!

They are waiting on the final CrewPass ruling.