Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1061676)

The data is easily available. For 2010 they averaged 52 block hours per pilot. Delta was at 42. Total pilot costs per block hour flown were 698 at SW and 690 at Delta.

Southwest's W-2 data is also easily available, yet our association refuses to use it as it would make mgmt unhappy. They would rather use data which "easily proves" both groups are equally compensated based on costs.
I guess it's a done deal then as all the data we need is right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1061898)

There. Fixed it for you. ^^^^^^

I can agree with that fix!:) As you and others think, I think there should be some kind of con side paper or presentation.

Denny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1061837)

I know this is the standard ALPA talking point to discredit the SWAPA contract, but it's a total lie. SWA pilots rarely fly to the FAR limits. But their contract allows for PAY hours well above 1000 hours per year. That's because of their tremendous work rules that mandate very high levels of guaranteed pay per day. Adopting SWA work rules would simply pay us for the time we're at work, as opposed to what we have now. It wouldn't have any affect on manning...none. This is yet another ALPA scare tactic to get you to avert your eyes from that SWAPA contract.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1061838)

You guys couldn't be more wrong.

Carl

The more I read here has convinced me you're correct. I think it gets complicated when we throw in things like multiple fleet types, augmented crews, international ops, deadheads, etc.

Keep the facts coming fellas. I appreciate the education. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1061891)

Historically, openers have been public but there's nothing in the law that says they have to be, or even that there has to be such a thing as "openers".

The negotiations are private (unless one side or the other decides to make public statements).

http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/collbarg2.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1061895)

I don't remember ever seeing any specific opener or any back and forth offers between the union and management. When there is a Tentative Agree ment (TA) the negotiating committees, it will be presented to the MEC for their vote and if they vote in favor there will be road shows to all the bases by the union to explain it. Then there will be a membership ratification vote. Probably closing about 2 months after a TA is reached.

Denny

I'm guessing that if both/either sides decide to go public with the negotiations, then that could be a sign that negotiations aren't going well. Kinda like what ucal is going through.

Someone mentioned it a few pages back, but if management doesn't like our position could they really just say we'll meet again in 6 months?
I've heard passing a TA with retro pay rarely ever happens, especially when contract negotiations are dragged out, but how long could management drag out negotiations if they wanted to before their hand is forced?
If the MEC approves anything for a vote I believe that resets the clock and negotiations start back at square one, sound about right? I realize there is a process (cooling off period, arbitration...etc), but I just trying to figure out how long they could drag this thing out IF they wanted to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1061908)

I'm guessing that if both/either sides decide to go public with the negotiations, then that could be a sign that negotiations aren't going well. Kinda like what ucal is going through.

Someone mentioned it a few pages back, but if management doesn't like our position could they really just say we'll meet again in 6 months?
I've heard passing a TA with retro pay rarely ever happens, especially when contract negotiations are dragged out, but how long could management drag out negotiations if they wanted to before their hand is forced?
If the MEC approves anything for a vote I believe that resets the clock and negotiations start back at square one, sound about right? I realize there is a process cooling off period, arbitration...etc, but I just trying to figure out how long they could drag this thing out IF they wanted to.

Anybody know when the current NMB changes? Seems to me the current NMB & Delta management don't really get along. Perhaps this would be advantageous to us as a pilot group if management tried the game of walking away??

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1061908)

My guess is that most likely there would not ever be "retro pay" and instead it is converted to a "signing bonus". Similar to what happened with Alaska Airlines. The reason for this is if it was "retro pay" the company would have to go back and pay anyone who left (i.e retired).

Off topic.....any word on the upcoming AE? When? Category movements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raging white (Post 1061916)

Off topic.....any word on the upcoming AE? When? Category movements?

Around the end of October/beginning of Nov once the 2012 block hours are finalized. I imagine the final slot swap ruling will also have an effect on possible new categories. New categories are anybody's guess. I'm not sure even the company knows until the day before they announce it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1061895)

I agree, and it can also be dangerous. If the company is presenting their openers, or subsequent positions publicly, they are in effect negotiating with the pilot group and not our bargaining agent. If that is to occur, I would immediately suspect that our NC is making demands that are far better than that of the position the company made public. Suffice to say, "Buyer be wary."