Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1000682)

Denny-
You are correct. Sorry if I was not clear.
I have no problem with DBMS "Swap with the pot". The problem is the swap with friends and/or pick-up board. That little jewel is what allows the trip parking and schedule manipulation outside the contractual protections.

If there's a way to fix it that would allow the swap scenario you described while preventing the unethical contract violating aspects, then I would be in favor.

Until then- it is an abomination. I can hardly believe that DALPA has allowed it for this long. There must be a good reason our union wants to reduce manning but I can't think of what that would be. Why don't we go back to "vacation selling"? That's the ticket. We should have a "Sell your vacation" board.That's another real money-maker for those guys flying 140 hours a month. No more of that pesky time off to worry about.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1000693)

80 you're thinking as a pilot and are forgetting the management side of the equation as well as the legal side of it.

We pilots assign a hierarchy to our profession, that being:
student -> private -> commercial -> flight instructor -> regional -> mainline -> astronaut -> NewK

However, the legal system and management don't see it that way. All they see are:
Current rates of pay -> career expectations

The problem lies in the career expectations, since management can tweak this in favor of the regional pilots if they want leverage against mainline pilots.

Imagine I was management at Delta and wanted to get concessions out of your group. All I have to do is say I will merge you guys with Comair and you are pretty much forced into those concessions. However, as management I can't overstep to the point you guys start voting with your feet.

Merging with Comair might not seem as bad as it sounds, but remember as management I still have 76 seat scope relief so after all is said and done I can send their planes to Skywest. However, before I do that I set Comair's contract rates to $500 an hour, which doesn't matter since the planes are going away. But this puts them in a position to have all of Delta stapled below them in a SLI. This is since both their current rates and career expectations are now way above that of any mainline pilot.

Originally Posted by LuvJockey (Post 1000695)

Odd - it was only a short time ago when you guys were stating that wages didn't count in an integration. This is getting interesting. Go on.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1000693)

However, the legal system and management don't see it that way. All they see are:
Current rates of pay -> career expectations

The problem lies in the career expectations, since management can tweak this in favor of the regional pilots if they want leverage against mainline pilots.

Imagine I was management at Delta and wanted to get concessions out of your group. All I have to do is say I will merge you guys with Comair and you are pretty much forced into those concessions. However, as management I can't overstep to the point you guys start voting with your feet.

Merging with Comair might not seem as bad as it sounds, but remember as management I still have 76 seat scope relief so after all is said and done I can send their planes to Skywest. However, before I do that I set Comair's contract rates to $500 an hour, which doesn't matter since the planes are going away. But this puts them in a position to have all of Delta stapled below them in a SLI. This is since both their current rates and career expectations are now way above that of any mainline pilot.

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1000710)

ftb & Satch,

I can't remember who was the history buff between you two. But, either way or both, I think I mentioned a great book I read years ago called April 1865. Tonight on the History Channel they made it into a 2 hour special. Check it out if you can.

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1000705)

Are you saying what you get paid equals career expectations in the eye of the legal (arbitrator) system? No, but I like to keep my posts short to avoid tldr (too long didn't read).

Do you really think management would try to do this and **** off a group of 12000+ guys in favor of less than a 1000? No I don't because my example is a very extreme one, however, it is completely possible for management to do what I just described.

Denny

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1000710)

ftb & Satch,

I can't remember who was the history buff between you two. But, either way or both, I think I mentioned a great book I read years ago called April 1865. Tonight on the History Channel they made it into a 2 hour special. Check it out if you can.

Originally Posted by LuvJockey (Post 1000695)

Odd - it was only a short time ago when you guys were stating that wages didn't count in an integration. This is getting interesting. Go on.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1000712)

The beauty of Direct TV app, DVR and History channel reruns, I'll get it at... 8am tomorrow. :D

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1000713)

Management has used unreal threats against us in the past. Unfortunately, we keep getting fooled over and over again.