I don't consider you or I as a back door entrant to the new Delta. I was hired in the early 80's at a time when almost nobody was hiring after a grueling interview process and three day physical at the Mayo Clinic. I'm sure your process was something similar. That process is important if you want to fly for a major - all you have to do is get through it.

No I can't. When it comes to the decision of entering into a corporate merger, that is entirely the purview of the board of directors. Not the union, and not some line pilot.

You seem to think there's another choice. There isn't. Unions don't decide if there will be a corporate merger, or who you will merge with.

Of course our union would represent any pilot group that management decided to merge with.

That'd be great. After I won the lawsuit, my proceeds and back pay would have made for one wonderful paid vacation. But your loathing of senior pilots is starting show...again.

In my first five years at the major airline business, I was furloughed 5 times. No furlough pay, no COBRA benefits, no union help. That's the way it was back then. You don't forget that. You prepare yourself for starting over at any time. You never consider this job permanent. At least I've never been able to.

Carl

I am seeking employment at Southwest as well as other carriers. It was in my best interest to get to know people there and find out what qualities a competitive candidate should possess. Friends at Southwest tell me the most competitive applications are from military and pilots from other legacy carriers. This includes Delta pilots, and it would make sense.

No, I wouldn't expect a Delta guy that has been there for 10 years or more to apply to SW, but 10 year pay at delta is 3rd year pay at southwest. Perhaps the employees at Southwest are just saying this out of arrogance, I don't know.

You will see this disparity go away in the next Delta contract beginning 1 Jan 2013. As has been stated many times before, prior to 9/11 Delta's wage structure significantly exceeded SWA's pay scales as well as many others. With the merger complete and $1.4 Billion in profit in 2010 this will be the next step.

What happened with Delta Air Elite that caused them to violate your contract?

No.


Uh oh...

Oh yeah! Well you're a.......you're a.......conversational racist and poopy-head! ;)

I believe no such thing. Almost every pilot in America IS represented, and that is a must in our business. You're starting to lose me here Bar...

What prejudice is that? Prejudiced against something you wrongly accuse me of believing? I've NEVER said every regional pilot has applied with a major and was turned down. What I DID say is that "most people like Mesabah (a CRJ700 Captain) have likely applied to the majors and didn't get on for whatever reason."

I don't mind you trying to slam me Bar, but at least try not to blatantly put words into my cyber-mouth.

Carl

Um no. I'm the one that wants to dump ALPA over this because ALPA wants to do nothing about outsourcing except continue it. You're the one who wants to fix ALPA from within. Who has forgotten what...


Um no. "Legacy Carrier" is a media term. We are a major carrier, and major carriers still do most of the flying. So far.


But still you came to the majors.

Um no. Bigotry didn't get Delta pilots furloughed. Giving in to the Scope fear propagated by management and ALPA did that.

Carl

Every one of those choices are management's...not ours. We have no leverage via any job action to enact any of these desires because it involves Section 1. That, unfortunately, is the result of precedent set back in 1974.

We fought and struck over every inch of our contract Bar. You wouldn't know what that's like. I believe strongly in all unionized pilots having merger and fragmentation contract provisions. I believe most do.

You've been having White Russians for breakfast...haven't you.

Carl

DALPA is showing no signs whatsoever of doing anything to achieve that. Maybe that will change, but I don't know how you could make such a statement.

Carl

OK, let me rephrase. First, you have to assume that transitioning from our current system to longevity based pay is a zero sum game. It's just a different way of allocating a fixed pot of cash. Or, if you want to assume we get massive pay increases, such that a 777A doesn't take a paycut, then that means his raise is much less than those junior to him. So either, way the math works out the same.

We have 34 airplanes (777 and 747) at the top of the pay scale. Out of 742 (according to APC). That means 4.5% of our pilots are at the top of the pay scale. Under a longevity system, that means your seniority number would have to be roughly in the top 4.5% (#559 out of 12,200) to equal that pay. Yet, we have guys with seniority number of 2200+ on the 777.

As for my thoughts overall on longevity pay, several things come to mind:

1) You're not producing any more revenue for DAL just because you've been here longer, so the economic case to be made is tougher. Longevity based pay is also how ALPA ends up with $70,000/yr secretaries, which you acknowledge is ridiculous, as do I.

2) By removing a significant incentive for moving to different aircraft, you have the effect of flattening the seniority on each aircraft, and thereby reducing your options from a quality of life perspective. It would be like we have 1-2 different categories and that is it. Whereas now, a pilot with a seniority of, for example, 2000, has the choice of:

a) Super senior on the M88
b) Senior on the M88
c) Average seniority on the 767
d) Not too senior on the 764
e) Junior but able to hold the 777

So this pilot has almost limitless choices to pick just the right mix of quality of life, trips, and pay. Eliminate the pay differential, and you basically only have domestic and international as a choice, and with DAL mixing categories even that gets blurred.

Meaning, when you first get hired, you can count on 5 years of reserve, followed by 5 years of moderate seniority as an F/O, followed by 5 years of good seniority as an F/O or reserve as a Captain. Then same once you make Captain. Under the current system, if willing to stay on a small aircraft, you can be very senior fairly quickly. That option disappears under longevity based pay. That's my primary problem with it.

Bigot is such a strong word with so many racial undertones...

---->Bigotry: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

How about "dogmatic" to describe Carl?

---->Dogmatic: asserting opinions in a doctrinaire or arrogant manner; opinionated. :rolleyes: