Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-14-2011 | 09:24 AM
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From: A-320A
What can you do to insure that we have success in the next contract?
First, you can beat the drum about completing the survey. Ask everyone you encounter if they know about it and have they completed it?
Second, become an expert on how Section 6 negotiations work. If this is your first rodeo, you have some reading to do. Section 6 negotiations can be extremely frustrating if you have never been through it before. It's important to understand what DALPA can do and not do. It's even more important for you to understand what you can and cannot do. Everything is about the status quo. Learn what that means and how it can affect you. Knowledge is power. Empower yourself.
Third, take personal responsibility with your financial perparedness. Now is the time to pay down your debt. Do not plan on buying a new car or a bigger house any time soon. Do not plan on assuming any new financial obligations. Pay down debt. Get liquid. Start saving some money. That way you can go into this effort from a position of power and not weakness. Once Section 6 starts, DALPA will be restricted in what they can say about this. That is why you must assume responsibility for your financial health.
Last, make sure your significant other has been educated in all the possibilities. The last thing you need is pressure from the home front. An educated, supportive spouse will be a huge asset. You are going to need a partner.
Now, if anyone has any other ideas, this is the time to start talking about them, here, at home and at work. It's not time to inflate the rat, but it is time to start your personal preparations.
First, you can beat the drum about completing the survey. Ask everyone you encounter if they know about it and have they completed it?
Second, become an expert on how Section 6 negotiations work. If this is your first rodeo, you have some reading to do. Section 6 negotiations can be extremely frustrating if you have never been through it before. It's important to understand what DALPA can do and not do. It's even more important for you to understand what you can and cannot do. Everything is about the status quo. Learn what that means and how it can affect you. Knowledge is power. Empower yourself.
Third, take personal responsibility with your financial perparedness. Now is the time to pay down your debt. Do not plan on buying a new car or a bigger house any time soon. Do not plan on assuming any new financial obligations. Pay down debt. Get liquid. Start saving some money. That way you can go into this effort from a position of power and not weakness. Once Section 6 starts, DALPA will be restricted in what they can say about this. That is why you must assume responsibility for your financial health.
Last, make sure your significant other has been educated in all the possibilities. The last thing you need is pressure from the home front. An educated, supportive spouse will be a huge asset. You are going to need a partner.
Now, if anyone has any other ideas, this is the time to start talking about them, here, at home and at work. It's not time to inflate the rat, but it is time to start your personal preparations.
I agree 100% and have been preparing for two years.
Of note, a lot of pilots I come in contact with really do not think that ALPA will take the fight to the highest levels afforded to them under section 6, and for us to be successful and for ALPA to be successful, that needs to change. It starts with DALPA showing the pilots that they got their back.
10-14-2011 | 09:33 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Ok boys, lets get back to something REALLY important.
Was in ATL for 3 days earlier in the week doing queep at the school house. Good news for you younger guys......there were NEW HIRE Flight Attendants roaming the halls and taking computer tests.
Like I said. Hummmmmmmm
Was in ATL for 3 days earlier in the week doing queep at the school house. Good news for you younger guys......there were NEW HIRE Flight Attendants roaming the halls and taking computer tests.
Like I said. Hummmmmmmm
She mostly just does the Prague trips so I apologized to her for having to fly the MD-88.
You could watch the heads turn as she passed people.
10-14-2011 | 09:47 AM
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
My point is that WHO CARES what the "net takehome" is!
What is the COST to the Corporation per pilot? If an AF/KL pilot pays more taxes, it doesn't affect the corporation ANY differently!
Since we are in a JV, all the costs and revenues are shared.
This means when DAL per pilot gross costs are lower than the per pilot gross cost of AF/KL pilots, DAL pilots are subsidizing AF/KL pilot pay!
I want to see that eliminated.
Per pilot cost is the metric the company needs to consider, and taxes taken from that are a function of government, and the burden of the individuals who live in that nation.
What is the COST to the Corporation per pilot? If an AF/KL pilot pays more taxes, it doesn't affect the corporation ANY differently!
Since we are in a JV, all the costs and revenues are shared.
This means when DAL per pilot gross costs are lower than the per pilot gross cost of AF/KL pilots, DAL pilots are subsidizing AF/KL pilot pay!
I want to see that eliminated.
Per pilot cost is the metric the company needs to consider, and taxes taken from that are a function of government, and the burden of the individuals who live in that nation.
When it comes to airline accounting just about everything is on a seat mile/passenger mile basis.
ASM = capacity (available seat miles)
RPM = traffic (revenue passenger miles)
CASM = unit cost (cost per available seat miles)
RASM = revenue (revenue per available seat miles)
PRASM = passenger revenue (passenger revenue per available seat miles)
So when we set out to compare cost, we need to look at it from a CASM standpoint.
Pilot portion of CASM is the true cost of Delta pilots.
Have you seen this number published, have you heard it quoted at roadshows?
The closest thing we can get is to go to MIT and use numbers supplied by the DOT.
Total ASMs Produced per Dollar of Total Pilot Compensation
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...mpensation.htm
Two comments:
Training events take pilots offline. That means that pilot not making revenue flights is creating zero ASMs.
Reducing capacity means fewer ASMs to defray pilot cost.
The bottom line is both of those factors will increase pilot cost and the data bears that out.
For the real sticklers out there:
Since the AFKLM/AZ JV is using the metric system, they use Seat Kilometers.
That's why our Contract uses EASK as the metric to compare flying performed by joint venture partners.
EASK = capacity (equivalent available seat kilometers adjusted to include cargo)
Back to your premise Shiznit:
We need the pilot portion of CASK for Delta and AFKLM/AZ
then we just compare
I think where you will have a hard time is determining exactly what the pilot portion of CASK is for the thee companies that make up AFKLM/AZ.
In terms of us pilots, its fair to compare compensation after taxes, in the end thats what makes the difference between a caddilac/citroën/spyker lifestyle and a donkey cart.
The Europeans pay a lot more in taxes and get more benefits in return in terms of healthcare, retirement.
In turn their vacation cost is born by the corporation, whereas here anybody under 10 years service mostly pays for it out of pocket.
To be honest, I'd like to just concentrate on working with the company, how about we:
Reduce the training footprint by reducing the amount of base swaps.
Reducing codeshare and DCI flying and increasing mainline capacity in kind.
In turn we take all those savings and pay them out to the pilots by improving the contract.
Cheers
George
10-14-2011 | 09:50 AM
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From: LAX ERA
I can attest to this. I had a tall should-be-a-model new hire FA from Czechoslovakia the other day. Actually, she looked a lot like Heidi Klum. A lot.
She mostly just does the Prague trips so I apologized to her for having to fly the MD-88.
You could watch the heads turn as she passed people.
She mostly just does the Prague trips so I apologized to her for having to fly the MD-88.
You could watch the heads turn as she passed people.
I'll miss the Tokyo girls, PEK not so much.
Ferd
10-14-2011 | 09:53 AM
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
See above post.
The metric to use is Pilot portion of CASM/CASK.
Your hypothetic Frenchman/Dutch/Italian better fly an a380 on that one day to produce as many Seat Kilometers as possible.
Cheers
George
10-14-2011 | 10:04 AM
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From: window seat
I agree 100% and have been preparing for two years.
Of note, a lot of pilots I come in contact with really do not think that ALPA will take the fight to the highest levels afforded to them under section 6, and for us to be successful and for ALPA to be successful, that needs to change. It starts with DALPA showing the pilots that they got their back.
Of note, a lot of pilots I come in contact with really do not think that ALPA will take the fight to the highest levels afforded to them under section 6, and for us to be successful and for ALPA to be successful, that needs to change. It starts with DALPA showing the pilots that they got their back.
Passed up a lot of bling over the years, and left a lot of toys on the shelf, yet still lived well enough and enjoyed it along the way and never gave a second thought to dropping days I wanted off. I cringe when I see guys that make 2 or 3 times (or more) and yet live hand to mouth spending money they won't even make for several years. Management LOVES that.
10-14-2011 | 10:06 AM
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Starting January 2012 DELTA is launching 2 weekly Busan – Saipan service, on board Boeing 757-200 aircraft.
Cheers
George
Cheers
George
10-14-2011 | 10:11 AM
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From: A-320A
10-14-2011 | 10:39 AM
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From: New to mother D
In defense of DALPA...
I've been hard on ALPA on a number of issues. However, I have some thoughts on the road show and people's criticisms of TO's positions (or lack thereof) yesterday.
Overall I'm happy with how TO and company handled themselves yesterday and how they postured themselves at the last road show.
A lot of guys yesterday were asking for leadership... guys want TO and the negotiating folks to come out with solid positions on restoration, scope, etc. etc.
I think the DALPA guys are doing the right thing by not tipping their hand. You don't walk into a car dealership, stroll into the sales manager's office, and tell him you want a car with a chrome bumper. You've just given away negotiating leverage. He can now use that knowledge against you in negotiations. He knows you can't live without that chrome bumper... so he can chisel away at other options that are secondary to you.
Likewise, I don't want the negotiating committee making public declarations about which issues are critical to the pilot group.
Secondly, someone got up yesterday and said that the pilot group needs to be rallied... I want a pilot group that's willing to go to the mat if it's required. However, step back for a second and take a look at the context in which these guys are going to have to negotiate.
Think about this for a second... you're on the negotiating committee and negotiating against the company. The NMB is watching. Things have ground to a halt and the company isn't showing up to the table with the gains you need. Do you want the company to be able to paint you as cheerleaders of what they say is the most demanding and aggressive part of the pilot group? I don't think so. I think the negotiating committee would rather be able to say "look guys, we'd love to be able to take this to MEMRAT, but they'll have our heads on pikes and then you might be dealing with someone else."
It think it is ultimately to our advantage to have our negotiators be able to present themselves as asking for less than the pilot group at large is demanding.
That being said, from the last two road shows and the comments I've heard from DALPA guys about the situation at American and the actions of the APA, I have the impression that they feel that taking something now is better than enduring an extended standoff that might result from asking for more substantial gains. I do not assert that this is in fact the case, but it is definitely the impression I have.
All in all, I think we should bear in mind that we're still months from openers. It's not the time for a lot of what guys were asking for yesterday, and a lot of the things that guys were asking for yesterday, while they may assuage some anxiety about the process, might ultimately weaken our ability to negotiate the best contract we can.
Overall I'm happy with how TO and company handled themselves yesterday and how they postured themselves at the last road show.
A lot of guys yesterday were asking for leadership... guys want TO and the negotiating folks to come out with solid positions on restoration, scope, etc. etc.
I think the DALPA guys are doing the right thing by not tipping their hand. You don't walk into a car dealership, stroll into the sales manager's office, and tell him you want a car with a chrome bumper. You've just given away negotiating leverage. He can now use that knowledge against you in negotiations. He knows you can't live without that chrome bumper... so he can chisel away at other options that are secondary to you.
Likewise, I don't want the negotiating committee making public declarations about which issues are critical to the pilot group.
Secondly, someone got up yesterday and said that the pilot group needs to be rallied... I want a pilot group that's willing to go to the mat if it's required. However, step back for a second and take a look at the context in which these guys are going to have to negotiate.
Think about this for a second... you're on the negotiating committee and negotiating against the company. The NMB is watching. Things have ground to a halt and the company isn't showing up to the table with the gains you need. Do you want the company to be able to paint you as cheerleaders of what they say is the most demanding and aggressive part of the pilot group? I don't think so. I think the negotiating committee would rather be able to say "look guys, we'd love to be able to take this to MEMRAT, but they'll have our heads on pikes and then you might be dealing with someone else."
It think it is ultimately to our advantage to have our negotiators be able to present themselves as asking for less than the pilot group at large is demanding.
That being said, from the last two road shows and the comments I've heard from DALPA guys about the situation at American and the actions of the APA, I have the impression that they feel that taking something now is better than enduring an extended standoff that might result from asking for more substantial gains. I do not assert that this is in fact the case, but it is definitely the impression I have.
All in all, I think we should bear in mind that we're still months from openers. It's not the time for a lot of what guys were asking for yesterday, and a lot of the things that guys were asking for yesterday, while they may assuage some anxiety about the process, might ultimately weaken our ability to negotiate the best contract we can.
10-14-2011 | 10:48 AM
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Trip Rig = 3.5:1 which basically means for every 3.5 Time Away From Base (TAFB) on your rotation you will receive 1 hour of credit. This is pretty lame and definitely needs to be improved.
Duty Period Average (DPA) is 5:15 per Duty period. This is totally unacceptable and a major detriment to quality of life for DAL Pilots.
First off its Duty period vice daily average which means you can have only 3 duty periods even on a 4 day trip. *** This is done via layovers greater than 24 hours so that if you are a 4 day trip, fly on every one of those 4 days but have a long layover you may only qualify for 3 duty periods. Theoretically you can have 2 duty periods on a 4 day trip but then you will be protected by the abysmal 3.5:1 trip rig. Trip rig credit is very inefficient for the pilots and not how you want to make money.
Secondly, 5:15 in itself is pretty poor. So we have a crappy system (DPA) governed by a low average. Many guys on APC have said what they would like to see instead. For example, a 6 hour daily average which would basically mean 6 hours minimum for a one day, 12 hours for a two day, 18 hours for a three day etc. The beauty of this is that if the company could produce more efficient trips the cost increase to the company is not linear. This means going from 5:15 to 6:00 approximately a 13% increase can cost the company a lot less than 13%.
The problem DAL currently has with scheduling efficiency is that marketing drives the flight schedule with little or no thought to pilot efficiency. Throw in multiple aircraft serving each city along with DCI service and the trip construction problem starts getting similar to playing three dimensional chess - very complicated. I am not syaing the company cannot do it better - its not like we have a bunch of monks locked away in a monastery cranking out the rotations (although they might do a better job) but it is all run by a computer. The computer inputs and variables are what determines our fate.
Throw in other restrictions like the companies minimum 12 hour reset after red-eyes (unilaterally imposed by the company) and you you are stuck with guys sitting on their arse for 30 hours.
Got to go - I will let someone else explain Duty Rig.
*** If you really want to directly see the negative affects of the DPA system on QOL pull up the LAX 737 bid package sometime and look over the 4900 series of rotations. This will convey the importance of good rigs far far better than reading about it on a forum and bring it home in a way we can all understand.
Hope this helps - Scoop
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