Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-24-2011 | 08:34 AM
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From: Light Chop
I wouldn't worry too much about the survey return numbers.
Historically, the Delta pilot group has a very significant level of "under participation". We have a huge "silent contingent". Whether it is surveys or LEC elections.
Its not that they are dumb, they definitely are not, but they just have other things they concentrate on in life. (side businesses, recreation, family, whatever) They prefer not to waste brain cells on any ALPA/Contract type issues. They actively avoid becoming too informed.
You don't necessarily want those guys filling out the surveys.
This is not to say they are somehow anti-labor or pro-management. They will be at our side if the union ever calls for a job action. But they will also not agitate independently, they don't attend meetings, and they especially won't spend any time analyzing our work rules or studying the contract comparison. They vote however the MEC recommends.
That's how our TAs always pass 60-40. If it gets past the MEC, it gets ratified.
Historically, the Delta pilot group has a very significant level of "under participation". We have a huge "silent contingent". Whether it is surveys or LEC elections.
Its not that they are dumb, they definitely are not, but they just have other things they concentrate on in life. (side businesses, recreation, family, whatever) They prefer not to waste brain cells on any ALPA/Contract type issues. They actively avoid becoming too informed.
You don't necessarily want those guys filling out the surveys.
This is not to say they are somehow anti-labor or pro-management. They will be at our side if the union ever calls for a job action. But they will also not agitate independently, they don't attend meetings, and they especially won't spend any time analyzing our work rules or studying the contract comparison. They vote however the MEC recommends.
That's how our TAs always pass 60-40. If it gets past the MEC, it gets ratified.
10-24-2011 | 08:46 AM
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From: Light Chop
It is what we want to hear. Particularly the lie about "we have not found a suitable 100 seat airframe." This lie has been often repeated while, in fact, they have been buying 100 seat airframes (configured with 76 seats) for several years now and have bought hundreds of them.
The CRJ700/900 and E175 have MD88/90, 737-700, A319/320 economics and similar cost per seat mile statistics. We need to realize that our contract does not have a 76 seat cap, as much as it has a 160 seat floor. As long as we allow management to outsource our small jet flying and our large jet flying (AF/KLM JV) they'll continue to grow their operation while simply leaving us behind.
I know we pilots are well educated far beyond our intelligence and aren't likely to blurt out "LIAR" at a road show ... but maybe someone could respectfully ask "what is Delta's core business?" The follow up question should be, "then why do we make such great effort to avoid doing any flying ourselves?"
New marketing slogan ... "Delta we're pigeons ... we don't fly unless there's no other choice."
The CRJ700/900 and E175 have MD88/90, 737-700, A319/320 economics and similar cost per seat mile statistics. We need to realize that our contract does not have a 76 seat cap, as much as it has a 160 seat floor. As long as we allow management to outsource our small jet flying and our large jet flying (AF/KLM JV) they'll continue to grow their operation while simply leaving us behind.
I know we pilots are well educated far beyond our intelligence and aren't likely to blurt out "LIAR" at a road show ... but maybe someone could respectfully ask "what is Delta's core business?" The follow up question should be, "then why do we make such great effort to avoid doing any flying ourselves?"
New marketing slogan ... "Delta we're pigeons ... we don't fly unless there's no other choice."
It's sad, but we've replaced 179 Boeing 732s and NWA DC9-1s and DC9-3s with 255 CRJ7/9s and E-Jets.
They certainly found their 100 seat replacement jet plus some. The only reason they may supposedly look at bringing a 100 seat size jet to mainline is if they can get 717s from SWA for a really good price. Otherwise there is nothing they want.
10-24-2011 | 09:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: 7ER Capt
Couldn't disagree more. At a time when the vast majority of the guys I fly with express great dissatisfaction with the direction of DALPA, what better way to show that great change is expected, than a 95% plus return of the surveys?
10-24-2011 | 09:09 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
Double edged sword:
1. Not enough surveys gives DALPA the opportunity to say "self selection bias," "not statistically significant," and other things which make the survey less of a tool and more of a shield.
2. Agree, engaged, educated pilots probably have more strong opinions about what they want, but everyone gets a vote.
I had not idea that my bud felt the way he felt about ALPA. He isnt a slug, just very disenfranchised IMO.
I too am disenfranchised with ALPA, but I am a realist and feel that the window of DPA involvement is rapidly closing. At the end of the day, I am about unity...for Delta pilots.
10-24-2011 | 10:26 AM
Underboob King
Joined: May 2005
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From: Guppy Commander
Last Captain I was flying with stopped to speak to a couple LCA's and they confirmed most of what was posted here to include the "RA wants it done by the amenable date" they also mentioned something along the lines of RA said around 30% was doable but spread over the duration of the contract...FYI
10-24-2011 | 10:29 AM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Poodle Whisperer
I mentioned the contract survey on the training bus recently and the resounding answer was "#$%@ ALPA." There is so little trust these days it's down right sad.
10-24-2011 | 10:58 AM
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From: Light Chop
10-24-2011 | 11:07 AM
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From: Light Chop
I wouldn't worry too much about the survey return numbers.
Historically, the Delta pilot group has a very significant level of "under participation". We have a huge "silent contingent". Whether it is surveys or LEC elections.
Its not that they are dumb, they definitely are not, but they just have other things they concentrate on in life. (side businesses, recreation, family, whatever) They prefer not to waste brain cells on any ALPA/Contract type issues. They actively avoid becoming too informed.
You don't necessarily want those guys filling out the surveys.
This is not to say they are somehow anti-labor or pro-management. They will be at our side if the union ever calls for a job action. But they will also not agitate independently, they don't attend meetings, and they especially won't spend any time analyzing our work rules or studying the contract comparison. They vote however the MEC recommends.
That's how our TAs always pass 60-40. If it gets past the MEC, it gets ratified.
Historically, the Delta pilot group has a very significant level of "under participation". We have a huge "silent contingent". Whether it is surveys or LEC elections.
Its not that they are dumb, they definitely are not, but they just have other things they concentrate on in life. (side businesses, recreation, family, whatever) They prefer not to waste brain cells on any ALPA/Contract type issues. They actively avoid becoming too informed.
You don't necessarily want those guys filling out the surveys.
This is not to say they are somehow anti-labor or pro-management. They will be at our side if the union ever calls for a job action. But they will also not agitate independently, they don't attend meetings, and they especially won't spend any time analyzing our work rules or studying the contract comparison. They vote however the MEC recommends.
That's how our TAs always pass 60-40. If it gets past the MEC, it gets ratified.
A buddy of mine had an interesting interaction with a JSer when the JSer became incensed when his ideal raise was pointed out to be well below SWA pay. My buddy was basically told he was wrong, DAL > SWA even after chapter 11... book it.
Let me be honest, how many of us realized just how much SWA made until we started poking each other in the eye over the slot swap? And I'd think the people here are pretty informed so I could imagine on the line the idea is DAL post chapter 11 pay is just knocked down to everyone else.
I think some pilots do indeed believe DAL Post Chapter 11 > SWA in pay. Maybe they're the same ones who believe an EMB-175 is an Airbus and they don't fill out surveys, never heard of the DPA and would vote however the MEC said even if the MEC said there were literally guns pointed at them so they recommend a vote yes but 90% of the airline would be furloughed. They'd vote yes.
10-24-2011 | 11:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: erb
10-24-2011 | 11:16 AM
Underboob King
Joined: May 2005
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From: Guppy Commander
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