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Old 10-25-2011 | 11:25 AM
  #78781  
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From: DAL FO
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Originally Posted by Jesse
Question about CQ bidding:

When your CQ Golden Days show up on PBS calendar does that mean if you get a reserve line for that month you'll get those days off as Golden Days as well? Do you have to bid them on your monthly bid, or are they automatically assigned to a guy who gets a reserve line?
They are Golden only in the sense that Training Planning cannot schedule you for CQ on any of those days. They have nothing to do with RES golden days. CQ Golden days apply equally to REG and RES pilots as all CQ Training is pre-awarded and loaded onto your schedule before you bid for a month in PBS. As such, PBS has no idea (and doesn't care) if you will be a REG or RES pilot because the monthly schedule bids haven't been run yet. Clear as mud?

You bid them in iCrew and I think the montly bidding timeline/deadline just changed a little bit with LOA 29. The full explanation is on a PBS notepad under the crew resources tab on Deltanet, but I think you have to have them in by the 21st* with your EARLY/MAY/MUST bids entered into PBS by the 31st at 1800 ET*.

Rough Timeline of Bidding Dates (From the Crew Resources Page)

December CQ Bidding

December CQ Golden Day bids must be submitted prior to October 21st
December CQ Bid Window Opens: October 25th 1800E
December CQ Bid Window Closes:October 31st 1800E
December CQ Bid Results are Posted NLT 0800 November 5th

You can see the CQ Results for December are posted (pre-awarded to your PBS calendar) by 0800 on the 5th which not coincidentally is when the PBS bid window for December bidding opens. Again, you won't know if you're a RES or REG pilot until sometime around the 15th or 16th (but No Later Than 17th) of November. You then will bid your RESERVE GOLDEN DAYS by the 19th* of November for the December schedule. Again, clear as mud???




*check it out yourself, don't want to give bad info. I'm gonna look before mid-November as my CQ comes up in JAN as an early month.
Old 10-25-2011 | 11:37 AM
  #78782  
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My survey was completed last week. Not to get into too much detail, but here were some of my "deal breakers"
*35% min pay increase from the start, but expect MD88 to exceed LUV rates, and larger acft to go north from there based on seats.
*SCOPE--decrease number of allowed >51 seat jets, plus possible restrictions on rj flying such as 500 mi distance limit, no hub to hub flying, sunset current contracts.
More limitations on codeshare flying. Scope is issue #1 for me and I communicated that to them in the survey.
*Min daily guarantee--Any Delta calendar day, ie. DH, CQ, 30 hr layover, etc. pays min guarantee. Period, no exceptions. Way too many 3 day trips with 11 hrs of pay.
*Reserve--75 hrs/mo and 14 days off. Rsv paid the same as a lineholder, put some seniority back in the system re: assigning trips
*Vac--needs to be paying way more than 3 hrs/day.
Old 10-25-2011 | 11:45 AM
  #78783  
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From: DAL FO
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
I agree. BTW, thanks for your service.

As to the indifference you've experienced, here's what I think a lot of it is attributable to. When DALPA allowed our pay to be cut by a total of 42% and allowed thousands of our jobs to be outsourced, I think a lot of folks (including myself) lost significant confidence in them. (Yeah, I know, we voted for it. But DALPA pushed it and sold it extremely hard.) Then, when Delta came out of bankruptcy, and DALPA showed no plan or even an expectation for restoration, I think a lot of folks (including myself) lost even more confidence in them. Now, we have gone almost HALF A DECADE and STILL no plan or even expectation for restoration. My confidence in DALPA at this point is basically zero. In fact, my voting reps are so "in the tank" with low expectations that I've completely disengaged from providing input to them.

Now, I submitted my survey very early on in the process. I'm just not one to give up completely... and in the grand scheme of things, the survey just didn't take that much of my time. But I think what you're seeing is a lot of guys who have given up completely and they just don't care anymore. Certainly, some of the fault lies with those individuals. But I attribute the greatest amount of the fault to a lack of direction and inappropriate leadership from DALPA. If DALPA had made our objectives clear from the start (and those objectives didn't include accepting what we have now as a new baseline), I'm 99.99% sure we would be seeing a much higher participation rate in this survey. Anyway, just my "2 cents"...
This defeatist, poor-me mentality is exactly what's going to get us a crappy contract. We need to stop moping and blaming someone else for what's gone wrong in the past decade. ALPA certainly had a hand in it, but there were quite a few outside forces influencing the process as well.

Now we finally have an opportunity to alter our course, and a large portion of the pilot group can't even be bothered to spend a few minutes filling out a survey!

The company is making money hand over fist and knows that we expect significant recognition in this next contract. If we're too weak, stupid or lazy to ask for it then we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. The laundry list of BS reasons for not getting on board and pulling in the same direction is just that, BS.

Even if you're the staunchest DPA supporter out there, hedge your bets. Continue to provide at least the minimum required participation (like filling out WHAT YOU WANT) while trying to create a better alternative union. I'm fine with that, but don't just give up. For better or worse, our cart is tied to ALPA for now, and our success and paychecks will depend on how well ALPA can do. You never know, they may actually achieve the unthinkable (in the DPA crowd's vision) and help us negotiate an industry leading contract. One thing is for certain though: Without some minimum participation from the pilot group, ALPA will not have the leverage to achieve what guys supposedly want (but apparently aren't willing to get off the couch for.)


**This rant was in no way directed at you 88. I admire your continuous beating of the restoration drum and just happpened to quote your post that was referencing the rampant apathy.
Old 10-25-2011 | 12:04 PM
  #78784  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Our current MEC holds the hope to turn things around.
"Hope" is a lousy strategy. What are they doing to turn things around? And why aren't we hearing anything about it?
Old 10-25-2011 | 12:06 PM
  #78785  
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Originally Posted by roadrunner65
My survey was completed last week. Not to get into too much detail, but here were some of my "deal breakers"
*35% min pay increase from the start, but expect MD88 to exceed LUV rates, and larger acft to go north from there based on seats.
*SCOPE--decrease number of allowed >51 seat jets, plus possible restrictions on rj flying such as 500 mi distance limit, no hub to hub flying, sunset current contracts.
More limitations on codeshare flying. Scope is issue #1 for me and I communicated that to them in the survey.
*Min daily guarantee--Any Delta calendar day, ie. DH, CQ, 30 hr layover, etc. pays min guarantee. Period, no exceptions. Way too many 3 day trips with 11 hrs of pay.
*Reserve--75 hrs/mo and 14 days off. Rsv paid the same as a lineholder, put some seniority back in the system re: assigning trips
*Vac--needs to be paying way more than 3 hrs/day.
Sounds almost identical to mine roadrunner. I asked for vacation to be paid at the min daily guarantee.
Old 10-25-2011 | 12:20 PM
  #78786  
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From: Captain Jack
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Will our profit checks be bigger or smaller this time
Old 10-25-2011 | 12:23 PM
  #78787  
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Originally Posted by Imapilot2
Will our profit checks be bigger or smaller this time
They will be A LOT smaller than the difference between what our W-2's will read and what they should read.
Old 10-25-2011 | 12:54 PM
  #78788  
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From: 777B
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Originally Posted by Ferd149
Leg warmers?!?!?!? Geeze, I just had an 80s flashback.......Buzz, Scambo and I staggering out of an O'Club somewherez. Teeth missing from the Crud game but with a bottle of Jeremiah Weed to dull the pain.

My most shameful O club experience was at miramar during an F-8 reunion. I can / will never drink free shots of yeager coupled to a heineken all night long. Nothing good can/ did possibly come of it.

No I will not go into details...bad, just bad.
Old 10-25-2011 | 12:57 PM
  #78789  
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From: 777B
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Originally Posted by LuvJockey
Sorry to butt into the Delta thread, but I'll make it quick. The $166,000 average salary that keeps getting quoted here is incorrect. The MIT website has made a gross error in their calculations. If you look at 2009, it says that average SWA pilot pay was $176,000 and dropped to $166,000 in 2010. That is simply not correct.

There seems to be an error in the total number of pilots at SWA. Their charts show a sudden jump of 5.2 crews per aircraft to 5.9 from 2009 to 2010. That number is not correct. MIT shows that SWA hired around 800 pilots in 2010, making their calculations wildly inaccurate. Actual number of pilots hired in 2010 was zero.

If you compare the total cockpit cost per block hour for narrowbody equipment, SWA cockpit cost per hour rose from $630 to $691. SWA's scheduling practices and contract did not change appreciably in 2010 other than a pay rate increase. To compare, Delta currently shows $552 total cost per hour for 2010.

Anyway, the $166,000 average salary figure is not correct. If you use the correct number of pilots, the average SWA salary is actually well above $186,000 per year. My past history of Delta bashing aside, that is the real info.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0EQUIPMENT.htm

Thanks Luv. That'll buy an adequate watch.
Old 10-25-2011 | 12:58 PM
  #78790  
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Originally Posted by roadrunner65
My survey was completed last week. Not to get into too much detail, but here were some of my "deal breakers"
*35% min pay increase from the start, but expect MD88 to exceed LUV rates, and larger acft to go north from there based on seats.
*SCOPE--decrease number of allowed >51 seat jets, plus possible restrictions on rj flying such as 500 mi distance limit, no hub to hub flying, sunset current contracts.
More limitations on codeshare flying. Scope is issue #1 for me and I communicated that to them in the survey.
*Min daily guarantee--Any Delta calendar day, ie. DH, CQ, 30 hr layover, etc. pays min guarantee. Period, no exceptions. Way too many 3 day trips with 11 hrs of pay.
*Reserve--75 hrs/mo and 14 days off. Rsv paid the same as a lineholder, put some seniority back in the system re: assigning trips
*Vac--needs to be paying way more than 3 hrs/day.
Not to get too into what I was pushing for, but here's where I sat.

*I think 5% over 5 years with a minimum of 5 encouraging phone calls, meetings, or commendations each quarter from an upper level executive/management type who smells of a combination of mahogany and expensive black label scotch. (I call this the 5-5-5 plan)

*Scope relaxation up to 100 seats in exchange for allowing pilots to sell commercial advertising space on their flight kits, luggage, and uniforms, in addition to 1 company-issued, monogrammed, blue Snuggie.

*1% point below LUV rates under the terms and conditions that it is formally/officially put in writing that DAL pilots are superior to SWA pilots in every other way as pilots and men.

*Vacation time to remain at 3 hours under the conditions that each pilot is permitted 5-10 minutes of loitering "free time" in the front lobby of a Skyteam Lounge of their choosing each calendar year.

*Sick time allocation and usage relaxation to allow pilots to trade banked sick time for on board beverages and snacks at a rate of 4 Twix or 2 Pringles for 1 hour of sick pay.


I know it's not what everyone might want, but keep in mind that the times have changed, C2K might as well be CULater because this is probably the best deal we are going to get.

Last edited by DeadHead; 10-25-2011 at 01:15 PM.
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