Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Speaking of Canada. It looks like Delta is adding another code share partner. It appears Delta and Westjet of Canada filed paperwork today. The source is from airliners.net... There is a link with the pdf on that site.
Carriers May Sue U.S. Over Slot Swap Ruling | AVIATION WEEK
One of [Delta/LCC] primary arguments was that the law only gives the FAA the authority to promote the safe and efficient use of airspace, not to assess and address impacts on competition. Another, as argued by Delta, US Airways and Continental, is that the conditions would violate the U.S. Constitution’s Fifth Amendment protection against the government taking private property (slots) for public use without “just compensation.”
On the latter, the FAA continues to argue, as it and the U.S. Transportation Department have done before, that the slots are an “operating privilege,” not a property right. In any case, it argues, the FAA is not “taking” the slots, but instead “regulating the ability of the petitioning carrier to transfer slot interests in a manner that results in unreasonable industry concentration.”
On the former, the FAA rejects the argument that is must confine itself to safety issues. FAA regulations, it asserts, require the applicants to also address why their request “would be in the public interest, that is, how it would benefit the public as a whole.”
Lawsuit Raises Slot Ownership Issue | AVIATION WEEK
The FAA’s conditions for approval of the slot swap between Delta Air Lines and US Airways would deprive the carriers of their constitutional protection against the government taking property for public use without “just compensation,” the airlines argued in a court filing Aug. 9.
The argument was one of several made in the “statement of issues” the carriers filed with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit (case number 10-1153). Raising the issue could compel the court to clarify whether slots are airline or government property, which has been a point of contention for years and has important government policy and airline business implications. Slot ownership, for example, was a key point of contention in 2007, 2008 and 2009 when the FAA and U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) proposed, and ultimately abandoned, a plan to auction off slots at the three major New York metropolitan area airports.
Under the slot swap agreement signed by Delta and US Airways last August, Delta would transfer 42 of its slot pairs at Reagan Washington National Airport to US Airways; in turn, US Airways would transfer 125 and lease 15 of its New York LaGuardia Airport pairs to Delta.
The FAA approved the plan, but—citing competition concerns—but with conditions: Delta would have to agree to sell 14 of the 42 National slot pairs to U.S. or Canadian carriers with less than 5% market share at the airport, and US Airways would have to do the same with 20 of the LaGuardia slot pairs.
Under the FAA conditions, the slots would have to be sold in a blind auction to the highest bidders among the airlines qualified to make bids. Any slots not purchased in the auction would revert to the FAA, not the carriers.
During that FAA proceeding, however, Delta and US Airways agued they cannot obtain “just compensation” if the bidding is limited to certain carriers, and if those carriers know they can low-ball bids because Delta and US Airways stand to lose the slots.
The FAA countered that the slots are an “operating privilege” provided to carriers—not their “property.” It also argued it would not be “taking” the slots, but instead “regulating the ability of the petitioning carrier to transfer slot interests in a manner that results in unreasonable industry concentration.”
All of those arguments are likely to be repeated as the lawsuit proceeds.
Delta and US Airways are challenging the slot swap conditions on more than constitutional grounds.
The carriers also argue in the lawsuit—as they did during the FAA proceeding—that Congress did not give FAA the authority to consider the effects on competition of a waiver of the government’s temporary ban on the transfer of slots at LaGuardia. Nor did Congress grant that authority to the DOT for the review of asset transfers, instead leaving it to the Justice Department (DOJ) to consider the competitive impact, they say.
Delta and US Airways also argue that the FAA is improperly placing conditions on slot transfers at National, although the airlines only needed a waiver for slot transfers at LaGuardia. FAA regulations allow slots to be transferred freely at National, subject only to DOJ antitrust review and possible court challenge under the Clayton Act, the carriers say.
The airlines also argue that the FAA insisted upon the slot divestiture condition even though the slot swap would improve service and benefit consumers.
Delta and US Airways might not be facing off solely against the FAA and DOT in this case. On July 30, Southwest Airlines filed for court permission to intervene in support of the FAA and DOT. Southwest told the court that the FAA and DOT consented to the motion, but Delta and US Airways did not.
Southwest says it has a “significant and unique interest in the outcome of this proceeding” because it has long sought LaGuardia and National slots and the proposed slot auction could enable to expand its “minimal presence” at LaGuardia and start service at National.
Southwest argues its interests in the case are not “adequately represented” by the FAA and DOT because Southwest “is concerned with its own economic and competitive interests,” while the government’s obligation is to “ensure that the broader public interest is vindicated regardless of the impact on individual parties.”
One of [Delta/LCC] primary arguments was that the law only gives the FAA the authority to promote the safe and efficient use of airspace, not to assess and address impacts on competition. Another, as argued by Delta, US Airways and Continental, is that the conditions would violate the U.S. Constitution’s Fifth Amendment protection against the government taking private property (slots) for public use without “just compensation.”
On the latter, the FAA continues to argue, as it and the U.S. Transportation Department have done before, that the slots are an “operating privilege,” not a property right. In any case, it argues, the FAA is not “taking” the slots, but instead “regulating the ability of the petitioning carrier to transfer slot interests in a manner that results in unreasonable industry concentration.”
On the former, the FAA rejects the argument that is must confine itself to safety issues. FAA regulations, it asserts, require the applicants to also address why their request “would be in the public interest, that is, how it would benefit the public as a whole.”
Lawsuit Raises Slot Ownership Issue | AVIATION WEEK
The FAA’s conditions for approval of the slot swap between Delta Air Lines and US Airways would deprive the carriers of their constitutional protection against the government taking property for public use without “just compensation,” the airlines argued in a court filing Aug. 9.
The argument was one of several made in the “statement of issues” the carriers filed with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit (case number 10-1153). Raising the issue could compel the court to clarify whether slots are airline or government property, which has been a point of contention for years and has important government policy and airline business implications. Slot ownership, for example, was a key point of contention in 2007, 2008 and 2009 when the FAA and U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) proposed, and ultimately abandoned, a plan to auction off slots at the three major New York metropolitan area airports.
Under the slot swap agreement signed by Delta and US Airways last August, Delta would transfer 42 of its slot pairs at Reagan Washington National Airport to US Airways; in turn, US Airways would transfer 125 and lease 15 of its New York LaGuardia Airport pairs to Delta.
The FAA approved the plan, but—citing competition concerns—but with conditions: Delta would have to agree to sell 14 of the 42 National slot pairs to U.S. or Canadian carriers with less than 5% market share at the airport, and US Airways would have to do the same with 20 of the LaGuardia slot pairs.
Under the FAA conditions, the slots would have to be sold in a blind auction to the highest bidders among the airlines qualified to make bids. Any slots not purchased in the auction would revert to the FAA, not the carriers.
During that FAA proceeding, however, Delta and US Airways agued they cannot obtain “just compensation” if the bidding is limited to certain carriers, and if those carriers know they can low-ball bids because Delta and US Airways stand to lose the slots.
The FAA countered that the slots are an “operating privilege” provided to carriers—not their “property.” It also argued it would not be “taking” the slots, but instead “regulating the ability of the petitioning carrier to transfer slot interests in a manner that results in unreasonable industry concentration.”
All of those arguments are likely to be repeated as the lawsuit proceeds.
Delta and US Airways are challenging the slot swap conditions on more than constitutional grounds.
The carriers also argue in the lawsuit—as they did during the FAA proceeding—that Congress did not give FAA the authority to consider the effects on competition of a waiver of the government’s temporary ban on the transfer of slots at LaGuardia. Nor did Congress grant that authority to the DOT for the review of asset transfers, instead leaving it to the Justice Department (DOJ) to consider the competitive impact, they say.
Delta and US Airways also argue that the FAA is improperly placing conditions on slot transfers at National, although the airlines only needed a waiver for slot transfers at LaGuardia. FAA regulations allow slots to be transferred freely at National, subject only to DOJ antitrust review and possible court challenge under the Clayton Act, the carriers say.
The airlines also argue that the FAA insisted upon the slot divestiture condition even though the slot swap would improve service and benefit consumers.
Delta and US Airways might not be facing off solely against the FAA and DOT in this case. On July 30, Southwest Airlines filed for court permission to intervene in support of the FAA and DOT. Southwest told the court that the FAA and DOT consented to the motion, but Delta and US Airways did not.
Southwest says it has a “significant and unique interest in the outcome of this proceeding” because it has long sought LaGuardia and National slots and the proposed slot auction could enable to expand its “minimal presence” at LaGuardia and start service at National.
Southwest argues its interests in the case are not “adequately represented” by the FAA and DOT because Southwest “is concerned with its own economic and competitive interests,” while the government’s obligation is to “ensure that the broader public interest is vindicated regardless of the impact on individual parties.”
I would leave for Southwest in a heartbeat. A fourth year first officer makes about $6,000 more/month than me. I make about 7 grand gross, he makes 13 grand gross. It's pretty evident from ALPA's stance that I cannot expect an 85% raise. Don't even start about retirement. Southwest has a 9 percent match. Their match is greater than what Delta gives me (I'm part of the 150 screwed NWA guys with no pension and less retirement percentage than every single other pilot on the list). I'm starting to think that I will be pushing hard to get on at Southwest after our contract is settled. ALPA has managed my expectations way down.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Boeing 757 First Officer and Cessna 182H financier
Only on takeoff. "You guys rotate too slow. Normal rotation is 3 degrees per second, you rotate well below 3 degrees per second and you pause at liftoff, rotate faster, faster, faster, WAIT! NOT THAT FAST, remember, you almost hit the ground every time so if you rotate just a tad too fast you'll hit the tail and then YOU ARE %@#%@#%. Got it?"

Speaking of gear ups, how about one that is not intentional and was filmed by professionals and ended with a go-around:

Speaking of gear ups, how about one that is not intentional and was filmed by professionals and ended with a go-around:
There was a big jump forward in the seniority list released today, about 84 numbers for me. I saw some folks earlier today questioning where those folks went.
I just went through the prior seniority and category lists, and todays Nov 11 list and compared them, finding where the differences are. It is mostly FURLOUGHED PILOTS dropping off the list.
The furloughed list says that from the date of furlough (1 Nov 2001 for the original 400 this decade), you have 10 years to seek re-employment and inform Delta you are available for training. Today is 1 Nov, and counting up from the bottom of the list, I found roughly 70 folks on the furloughed list that I estimate are from the original 400 furloughed on 1 Nov 01, who have now dropped off, and are not back with the company.
So, it's really a "paper increase", no real gain and no-one flying actually dropping off the list, just list-fillers that haven't actually been here and flying for a long time.
I believe we will see another move forward in the next few months as MIL LEAVE folks drop off the list also. Almost all the furloughs were recalled in Nov 06, with the last folks being recalled in Jan 07 I think, maybe Feb. In any case, Nov 06 was 5 years ago... anyone who accepted furlough recall and then went on MIL LEAVE, who has NOT come back, runs out of their 5 year USERRA recall/return rights about now, with everyone done by Feb 12 I'd think. With 334 currently NBC/MIL Leave pilots, of which almost all have seniority numbers indicating they were in the furlough group, I would expect a large number of them to exceed their 5 year limit and begin to drop off the list.
Of the furloughed pilots, there's still 212 left on the list, and I'm not sure why many are still there; I know for certain that many of them I see were in the original 1 Nov 11 furlough, and have not come back. I've heard rumor that there was a possible extension to this 10 year furlough return limit, but I have not been able to find it in the PWA; the only thing I did see said there was a 10 year limit. Maybe alfa or sailing or someone expert in the PWA and it's changes might shed some light on this.
Hate to see folks drop off like that, but I'd guess it means they've gone on to bigger/better/mo $$ things.
I just went through the prior seniority and category lists, and todays Nov 11 list and compared them, finding where the differences are. It is mostly FURLOUGHED PILOTS dropping off the list.
The furloughed list says that from the date of furlough (1 Nov 2001 for the original 400 this decade), you have 10 years to seek re-employment and inform Delta you are available for training. Today is 1 Nov, and counting up from the bottom of the list, I found roughly 70 folks on the furloughed list that I estimate are from the original 400 furloughed on 1 Nov 01, who have now dropped off, and are not back with the company.
So, it's really a "paper increase", no real gain and no-one flying actually dropping off the list, just list-fillers that haven't actually been here and flying for a long time.
I believe we will see another move forward in the next few months as MIL LEAVE folks drop off the list also. Almost all the furloughs were recalled in Nov 06, with the last folks being recalled in Jan 07 I think, maybe Feb. In any case, Nov 06 was 5 years ago... anyone who accepted furlough recall and then went on MIL LEAVE, who has NOT come back, runs out of their 5 year USERRA recall/return rights about now, with everyone done by Feb 12 I'd think. With 334 currently NBC/MIL Leave pilots, of which almost all have seniority numbers indicating they were in the furlough group, I would expect a large number of them to exceed their 5 year limit and begin to drop off the list.
Of the furloughed pilots, there's still 212 left on the list, and I'm not sure why many are still there; I know for certain that many of them I see were in the original 1 Nov 11 furlough, and have not come back. I've heard rumor that there was a possible extension to this 10 year furlough return limit, but I have not been able to find it in the PWA; the only thing I did see said there was a 10 year limit. Maybe alfa or sailing or someone expert in the PWA and it's changes might shed some light on this.
Hate to see folks drop off like that, but I'd guess it means they've gone on to bigger/better/mo $$ things.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,583
Likes: 326
I'm not going anywhere until I see what our next contract looks like. It will take me 16.5 years to reach the 50 percent mark at Delta according to the crystal ball. That assumes everyone leaves at the mandatory retirement age of 65 and the list stays the same size. I have news for you. Very few pilots are leaving early. I've flown with 63 1/2 year olds on the MD-88. Our list is shrinking. The retirement age might rise to 70. If that kid's post on the other website is true, he is making $72,000/year more than me to fly a smaller airplane. I like my current employer, but that's a hell of a lot of money per year. I would like someone to publish W-2's. ALPA tells me I'm not far off from Southwest, but the Southwest pilots are telling me different. I would like to know who's telling the truth. It's pretty sad how you just want to get rid of me. You would think you would want this place to be a premier place to work and not just a stepping stone. I have a junior buddy of mine who bid to the 737 recently to just get the type rating so he can move on. I know a 7er pilot who went to UPS while furloughed. He was furloughed from UPS and is back here. I asked him if he is going to stay when UPS recalls him. His answer was "hell no." The reason is UPS just pays too much more. It all comes down to the money and time off. I don't get much of either as a commuter on reserve.
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 851
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Not to mention the inherent conflict of interest that comes with allowing a Federal Agency to profit/benefit from the industry they are overseeing.
If the FAA potentially acquires up to $1 billion in auction proceeds as a result of this transaction, then can we really say that the final ruling was without any bias?
Getting sick and tired of the airline industry being a ****ing pot for the federal government. The new tax/fee proposals trying to be leveraged against the airlines by the Obama administration is a spit in the face.
If the FAA potentially acquires up to $1 billion in auction proceeds as a result of this transaction, then can we really say that the final ruling was without any bias?
Getting sick and tired of the airline industry being a ****ing pot for the federal government. The new tax/fee proposals trying to be leveraged against the airlines by the Obama administration is a spit in the face.
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