Originally Posted by scambo1

I'm spitballing, but 2 weeks ago, DAL paid the fee to MSP to get out of their promise that the merger wouldn't have an adverse effect on the msp employees. In the words of George Costanza: "shrinkage." Couple that with closing the training center...Just a couple of dots that make you go hmmm.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

I dunno. 9 hr CMH layos are not a good deal, yet the ER bid package is full of em.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I was being sarcastic. Sorry if I didn't make that clearer.

Oh man, I just realized...what if tsqure also thought I was serious? Better hire another bodyguard just in case.

Carl

Originally Posted by FlyZ

I'm concerned that the big "wave" of hiring everyone is counting on could mostly or completely bypass Delta. We will be out there past where the waves break, bobbing on our little surfboard while guys at other places catch the monsters and end up WAY out in front of us. Think about it...

One scenario: company gives another little bit of flying to AS. ALPA and MGT: it's nothing, just .5% of our flying and plus it helps us make money. Company finds a way to end around the AF JV restrictions. DALPA and MGT: don't worry, they are only out of compliance by 1%...we will give them a break for now because we are actually making money. Company pulls back flying by another 1% YOY like in this AE. ALPA and MGT: well we have to do this. This is a bad economy and look how high fuel prices are. Company replaces a few more 88/90 routes with the big RJs they already have. ALPA and MGT: don't be concerned, it's only .5% of our flying, and plus look at all the 50 seaters we are parking!

Well, none of those sound too horrible, but add up those block hour cuts. 12,000 x (.5% + 1% + 1% + .5%) = 360 pilots not needed in a year. And how many retirements do we have coming, on average? I bet a the next 5+ years (maybe even 10) would average to around 360. So I don't put too much stock in the consolation "it'll happen soon enough, and once they start hiring they won't be able to stop."

"Show me the money" is great, but you damn well better show me an iron-clad scope wallet to put that money in. We gained a little stock in the merger, but I guarantee we lost much, much more than that in $ and in QOL as we have stagnated and slipped backwards.

Originally Posted by iaflyer

The point I was trying to make is that not everyone commutes and it's unfair to focus solely on making it good for commuters. The way ALPA and the company seem to discuss issues is, Pilots want X, it costs the pilots X "dollars" or some sort of credits. By asking for the things like free hotels rooms and rearranging overnights so people overnight at home it will cost money - the company isn't going to do it out of the goodness of their heart. If the OP wanted things done for commuters, why can't there be things done for those who live in base? Obviously what I want asking for was TIC, but my concept is valid.

As ACL pointed out, I was lucky and don't have to commute now. I may have to commute in the future, who can predict the future. But as a commuter, I wasn't wishing for the PWA to be rearranged so my commute was easier. I recognized I was lucky that I was able to live in one city and work in another. Not many other industries allow that. I see how it sucks when your base closes and you're forced with choosing between several bad options.

The name of the game in the airline business these days is efficiency. I know it's not fun, but it's why we have 5am shows in LGA and moving airplanes around to reduce credit time.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Yeah. If Delta would throw $230K+ at me for averaging 12 days per month as a domestic narrowbody Captain, and make sure all flying of our passengers is done by mainline pilots, I think I could probably overlook a few other "holes in the deal." Those greedy SWA pilots! They are "LOL" all the way to the bank!

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Every AE seems to generate more angst than the last one. As a long time CVG based pilot who got "downsized" I feel your pain (MEM) and all the rest who are MD's. Let's focus back on the facts. Delta is making money. They are making money in a year where there are numerous excuses to lose money (earthquakes, tornadoes, fuel prices, Martian invasions, etc.) yet they are still making money. They are going to make money next year. They are not going to furlough. They will hire again soon (not as soon as we would like but soon enough). I have worked for Delta when they were financially viable and when they were going (or currently) bankrupt. We are in Plan A. Plan A does not produce the growth we all would hope for but it also is producing consistent profits in dog poop financial conditions. Consistent profits will eventually lead to growth AND better contracts. Don't panic. I have seen Delta as a failing airline and this aint it. Hang in there, it is already getting better, it is just hard to see it sometimes.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Just speculation but if I were ra. I would pay that now and then if I could get a certain hub from AMR in ch11 I would buy it close a few of our bases. Two heartland hubs and the four corner posts.

I saw the early payoff and came to the conclusion you did. MSP and DTW are too close together. So are CVG ATL and NYC.

SLC is too close to SEA.

Fwiw that is not rumor just crazy speculation!

Originally Posted by FlyZ

I'm concerned that the big "wave" of hiring everyone is counting on could mostly or completely bypass Delta. We will be out there past where the waves break, bobbing on our little surfboard while guys at other places catch the monsters and end up WAY out in front of us. Think about it...

One scenario: company gives another little bit of flying to AS. ALPA and MGT: it's nothing, just .5% of our flying and plus it helps us make money. Company finds a way to end around the AF JV restrictions. DALPA and MGT: don't worry, they are only out of compliance by 1%...we will give them a break for now because we are actually making money. Company pulls back flying by another 1% YOY like in this AE. ALPA and MGT: well we have to do this. This is a bad economy and look how high fuel prices are. Company replaces a few more 88/90 routes with the big RJs they already have. ALPA and MGT: don't be concerned, it's only .5% of our flying, and plus look at all the 50 seaters we are parking!

Well, none of those sound too horrible, but add up those block hour cuts. 12,000 x (.5% + 1% + 1% + .5%) = 360 pilots not needed in a year. And how many retirements do we have coming, on average? I bet a the next 5+ years (maybe even 10) would average to around 360. So I don't put too much stock in the consolation "it'll happen soon enough, and once they start hiring they won't be able to stop."

"Show me the money" is great, but you damn well better show me an iron-clad scope wallet to put that money in. We gained a little stock in the merger, but I guarantee we lost much, much more than that in $ and in QOL as we have stagnated and slipped backwards.

Originally Posted by scambo1

ACL;

WRT AA ch11. I've been thinking a lot about this. I don't think its going to happen. AA played this game before and extracted major long term concessions from the employees...and averted BK.

The same thing seems to be going on today. AA's retirements will be frozen in this contract and from here on, they will be a 401k airline. No BK is how I see it...stock pickers, take that for what its worth.