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Originally Posted by BigGuns
(Post 627331)
CPO ATL chatting... 450+ over for the spring 2010. However working with ALPA for "creative options" to not furlough. (3 month SILS, ALV adjustments, etc.) DAL wants to be postioned to jumps quickly if the econ turns (not likely), OR someone else no longer plays... FWIW
He is 11909 on the list of 12385 pilots. 476 from the bottom (roughly the 450 number quoted above). I would not be surprised if the company is planning on taking the early outs, and furloughing everyone below him... that would mean about 600-700 people shorter than current staffing requirements. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 627345)
That could all be covered by Compass.
That would still be Delta pilots off the Delta property. Worse, they'd be at the end of the line in a merger AND those on furlough bypass who wished to return could come back first. The First guy to be laid off would be #250'ish to be recalled! |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 627369)
:mad::mad::mad:
That would still be Delta pilots off the Delta property. Worse, they'd be at the end of the line in a merger AND those on furlough bypass who wished to return could come back first. The First guy to be laid off would be #250'ish to be recalled! |
Originally Posted by groundstop
(Post 627351)
Where is the trigger on the 76 seat seats removal? It was T KANE prior to integration but is a lot lower on the list now. I think the last NWA guy hired before 9/11 was UJHAZY hired 8/27/2001. So is my logic correct that this is the new trigger? In other words, if he is furloughed than 6 seats come out of EVERY 76 seater? While not a massive deterrent to furlough, it is something to limit the amount.
He is 11909 on the list of 12385 pilots. 476 from the bottom (roughly the 450 number quoted above). The short answer is no. Here is what the LOA states. Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (the PWA currently in effect) reads as follows: 40. “Permitted aircraft type” means: . . . d. one of up to 120 jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”). The number of 76-seat jets may be increased above 120 by three 76-seat jets for each aircraft above the number of aircraft in the baseline fleet operated by the Company (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) as of CBAID. The baseline fleet number will be 440+N, in which N is the number of aircraft (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares but not including permitted aircraft types) added to the Company’s baseline fleet from NWA. The number and type of all aircraft in the Company’s fleet on CBAID will be provided to the Association. The number of 70-seat jets plus 76-seat jets permitted by Section 1 B. 40. may not exceed 255. Exception: Up to the 36 EMB-175s that were operated and/or ordered by Northwest prior to CBAID may continue to be operated with up to a maximum gross takeoff weight of 89,000 pounds. e. once the number of permitted 76-seat jets is established, it will not be reduced. Exception one: If a pilot on the seniority list with an employment date prior to September 1, 2001 is placed on furlough, the Company will convert all 76-seat jets for operation as 70-seat jets. Exception two: In the event the flow provisions of NWA LOA 2006-10 and LOA 2006-14 cease to be available, either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats specified in Section 1 B. 40. d. will revert to 85. The Company will agree to the Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. but provides a one-time exception to this interpretation allowing the Company to operate up to 153* 76-seat jets so long as the Company does not furlough any pilot on the integrated system seniority list as of February 9, 2009, the date the agreement was signed. With agreement on the interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e, any further increase above 153 76-seat jets will require substantial mainline fleet growth. For example, for the Company to add a 154th 76-seat jet, the mainline would have to be comprised of 768 mainline jets. Today the mainline fleet consists of 753 aircraft. • If the Company does furlough any pilot on the Integrated System Seniority List, then the Company will physically remove six passenger seats from the number of 76-seat jets (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) that exceeds the authorized number of 76-seat jets under the Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. • While the Company will have 90 days from the first furlough to physically remove the seats, such seats will become immediately unusable for any purpose upon the furlough of the very first pilot on the list. |
Originally Posted by DeadHead
(Post 627277)
Do you think the company will take into consideration the freshly announced additional capacity cuts when determining how many early outs to accept?
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 627375)
I'm missing your point. Could you please explain the situation again? Is it a hypothetical situation of Compass being merged with Mainline?
1) If Delta pilots are furloughed, they are furloughed. A flow through does not mitigate that fact. If we merge with say, Alaska, a Delta pilot at Compass is not a Delta pilot. They are still not active Delta pilots like they would be if we had a single list. 2) We have pilots on furlough bypass who did not want to come back to NWA, but who now want to come back to Delta. About 250 of them if I remember. Delta pilots are at the bottom of the list. My point was that if/when a Delta pilot gets furloughed, he will be recalled after all the other furlough bypass pilots are recalled, in seniority order. That's probably fair, but it is ugly for those hired in 2007 and 2008. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 627382)
Which point?
1) If Delta pilots are furloughed, they are furloughed. A flow through does not mitigate that fact. If we merge with say, Alaska, a Delta pilot at Compass is not a Delta pilot. They are still not active Delta pilots like they would be if we had a single list. 2) We have pilots on furlough bypass who did not want to come back to NWA, but who now want to come back to Delta. About 250 of them if I remember. Delta pilots are at the bottom of the list. My point was that if/when a Delta pilot gets furloughed, he will be recalled after all the other furlough bypass pilots are recalled, in seniority order. That's probably fair, but it is ugly for those hired in 2007 and 2008. I thought you meant accepting the flowback would cause you to be recalled later. Two seperate scenarios? |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 627382)
2) We have pilots on furlough bypass who did not want to come back to NWA, but who now want to come back to Delta. About 250 of them if I remember. Delta pilots are at the bottom of the list. My point was that if/when a Delta pilot gets furloughed, he will be recalled after all the other furlough bypass pilots are recalled, in seniority order..
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 627391)
Oh, I see. So you're saying accepting the flowback to Compass could be more harmful then helpful?
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Originally Posted by Superpilot92
(Post 627396)
No, he's saying regardless of where you go after furloughed, the people on furlough bypass have first recall rights back once recalls begin. So if they furloughed 200 people and you were number 200, then you potentially could have to wait till they've offered 450 pilots their recall first instead of just the 200 that were furloughed this round.
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