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Originally Posted by exeagle
(Post 1103816)
Scope recovery would be a conflict of interest to the ASA, Comair, Compass, and Pinnacle pilot groups. National has to represent all of it's members equally.:o
Pinnacle pilots only have the legal right to negotiate scope with Pinnacle Corp. Compass pilots only have the legal right to negotiate scope with Compass Corp. ASA pilots only have the legal right to negotiate scope with ASA Inc. Get the idea? The Delta Pilot's scope clause gives the pilots of DAL the exclusive legal right to negotiate scope with Delta Air Lines. If things are conceded to allow "other carriers" to perform flying on behalf of Delta Air Lines, it is the pilots of Delta Air Lines that have allowed it to occur by voting in agreements that contain language that has "permitted types" to be flown by other pilots. ALPA National has nothing to do with it. |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1103892)
It's just not true.... I'm sorry that you've been misinformed.
Pinnacle pilots only have the legal right to negotiate scope with Pinnacle Corp. Compass pilots only have the legal right to negotiate scope with Compass Corp. ASA pilots only have the legal right to negotiate scope with ASA Inc. Get the idea? The Delta Pilot's scope clause gives the pilots of DAL the exclusive legal right to negotiate scope with Delta Air Lines. If things are conceded to allow "other carriers" to perform flying on behalf of Delta Air Lines, it is the pilots of Delta Air Lines that have allowed it to occur by voting in agreements that contain language that has "permitted types" to be flown by other pilots. ALPA National has nothing to do with it. I don't disagree with you on who can negotiate scope. The problem I have, is that we are required by the ALPA admin manual, in the proposal phase, to "meet with other negotiating committees from other pilot groups in the mainline/express system." The fact that they can comment on our scope, that does have something to do with Alpa national. It's just a conflict of interest, simple as that. |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1103892)
The Delta Pilot's scope clause gives the pilots of DAL the exclusive legal right to negotiate scope with Delta Air Lines.
If things are conceded to allow "other carriers" to perform flying on behalf of Delta Air Lines, it is the pilots of Delta Air Lines that have allowed it to occur by voting in agreements that contain language that has "permitted types" to be flown by other pilots. ALPA National has nothing to do with it. Other than that, ALPA National has nothing to do with it. Carl |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1103820)
Wrong.
The best thing we could do for them is help them get jobs where their longevity in the brand is a career, not a regional flavor of the day. We have the same interest. Stop kidding yourself. We don't have the same interests. What about the regional guys who have no desire to come to mainline and start over? Not a small percentage, I'm sure. They want all of the flying they can get. And who can blame them? Don't assume all regional guys want to move on. I've flown with many in the past who will never leave. They are content and they want OUR flying. |
Originally Posted by DFW Refugee
(Post 1103874)
I sure hope so!!! :confused: And quickly too! |
Originally Posted by carl spackler
(Post 1103889)
enough pilots paying attention has nothing to do with it. Dalpa/alpa/management disagrees with you. Dalpa/alpa/management is convinced that rj's are good for delta. Here's what you need to pay attention to: 1. Voting no on the ta when it comes out with either more scope sales or status quo scope. 2. Voting no on the ta when dalpa tells you that this is the best you're going to get and that if you vote no, we'll have to start all over from the beginning with a new team because the mec and its committees will resign. 3. Sending the new team back to the table with the mandate of reversing scope. 4. Ignore people who will be screaming that we should take what we can get now because of the time value of money.
Carl ten |
Originally Posted by exeagle
(Post 1103904)
I don't disagree with you on who can negotiate scope. The problem I have, is that we are required by the ALPA admin manual, in the proposal phase, to "meet with other negotiating committees from other pilot groups in the mainline/express system." The fact that they can comment on our scope, that does have something to do with Alpa national. It's just a conflict of interest, simple as that.
ASA/CMR/CPZ guys: "We object to your cutting of permitted outsourced feed, our guys will get furloughed." DAL NC guys: "Thanks for telling us. Duly noted, but we don't care, it's what our pilots want and we are the exclusive bargaining agent with Delta Air Lines, no one else can legally change that. We do have a preferential hiring agreement for ALPA carriers, so you will the ability to interview at Delta as we transfer the flying back to mainline, and you'll make more and more days off too!" ASA/CMR/CPZ: "But we strenuously object." DAL NC guys: "Oh. Well, if you strenuously object then we should take some time to reconsider.":rolleyes: DAL NC guys: "Yeah, we're going to rein in permitted types, deal with it. Thanks for coming to the meeting." Comair/ASA/Compass have no ability to enforce their will on the Delta Pilots in any way, shape or form . That meet/confer language protects mainline scope. Can you reference any instance where ALPA has intervened in the interest of a feeder airline rather than upholding the mainline pilot group interest? |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1103920)
Meet and confer conversation:
ASA/CMR/CPZ guys: "We object to your cutting of permitted outsourced feed, our guys will get furloughed." DAL NC guys: "Thanks for telling us. Duly noted, but we don't care, it's what our pilots want and we are the exclusive bargaining agent with Delta Air Lines, no one else can legally change that. We do have a preferential hiring agreement for ALPA carriers, so you will the ability to interview at Delta as we transfer the flying back to mainline, and you'll make more and more days off too!" ASA/CMR/CPZ: "But we strenuously object." DAL NC guys: "Oh. Well, if you strenuously object then we should take some time to reconsider.":rolleyes: DAL NC guys: "Yeah, we're going to rein in permitted types, deal with it. Thanks for coming to the meeting." Comair/ASA/Compass have no ability to enforce their will on the Delta Pilots in any way, shape or form . That meet/confer language protects mainline scope. Can you reference any instance where ALPA has intervened in the interest of a feeder airline rather than upholding the mainline pilot group interest? Comair/ASA/Compass have no ability to enforce their will on the Delta Pilots in any way, shape or form . That meet/confer language protects mainline scope. Then why was the whole addition to the manual a result of the settlement of the Ford/Cooksey case? To protect us? Can you reference any instance where ALPA has intervened in the interest of a feeder airline rather than upholding the mainline pilot group interest? No, I can not. But the fact that it is even a possibility and could imaginably happen, is alarming. Just because something hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1103908)
Except the ALPA mandate for us to meet and conference with our direct regional competitors on the subject of OUR section 1 (Scope). Except that we meet and conference with our direct regional competitors BEFORE we exchange our Scope opener with management. Except that the ALPA president has the right to further insert himself into the crafting of OUR scope opener if he deems it unhelpful to the industry as a whole.
Other than that, ALPA National has nothing to do with it. Carl Not directed at you but I want to know: I've yet to hear from anybody how ALPA benefits from making dues off of 2,000 "fee for departure" rather than 2000 mainline pilots. The "ALPA is a dues eating, money machine" argument doesn't work in financial terms.(plus all the RJ growth has been at non-ALPA carriers anyway.) |
Originally Posted by exeagle
(Post 1103927)
Comair/ASA/Compass have no ability to enforce their will on the Delta Pilots in any way, shape or form . That meet/confer language protects mainline scope.
Then why was the whole addition to the manual a result of the settlement of the Ford/Cooksey case? To protect us? Can you reference any instance where ALPA has intervened in the interest of a feeder airline rather than upholding the mainline pilot group interest? No, I can not. But the fact that it is even a possibility and could imaginably happen, is alarming. Just because something hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. It is insane that Alpo has not one billboard in any hub that compares the duty time of a pilot to a truck driver or train engineer........for like the last freakin 20 years! Answer me that Herndon !!!!! |
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