True all.
Without the Delta pilot, there would be no DCI pilot. Delta, and by extension, the Delta pilot, is on the hook for the risks. If the ticket is sold as a Delta flight, the Delta pilot rates at least equal priority to the DCI pilot on DCI metal (some owned by Delta anyway). After all, the ticket isn't sold as a Comair, Pinnacle, Republic, SkyWest, etc. flight, is it?

 

And the banks have no responsibility in lending hundreds of thousands to people who would never make that much money in their lifetime? There are penalties for walking away from the agreement. Credit is toast, but you can keep living and get out of a debt that wouldn't have been there without the crash.

 

What happened to individual responsibility? The "banks" didn't force jackasses to sign, did they?

You took out a loan you can't afford, you pay it back. I don't care if you have to pawn your Xbox 360, imitation Rolex, and your daughter's autographed Justin Beiber poster. Turn in your leased BMW and get a Kia. You signed, you pay.

 

Pax,

Delta does a fair amount of charter work for various sports teams. The chartering organization pays for the aircraft, the fuel, the crew, the maintenance, etc (not unlike Delta paying for all the DCI costs and in some cases Delta even owns the aircraft).

However Delta pilots (or other employees) don't get to ride on the chartered aircraft at all, unless they are working the flight. No jumpseaters, no non-revs, no nothin'.

I just can't conceive of say walking up to a charter for the LA Lakers and saying "I'm a Delta employee and I'm going to ride on this airplane and so Kobe Bryant's wife/girlfriend can't go (I'm assuming she's not a Laker's employee).

How do you think that would go over?

 

And Alaska....??? They seem to be carrying a lot of pax with "Delta" tickets.
Just sayin'

 

Yes banks had some responsibility, but the previous poster spoke of financial fraud. There was no financial fraud at banks. The financial fraud occurred when people signed a contract, then refused to pay.

Carl

 

How is this relavent to my argument that retired folks should travel after active employees?

I know better than to think anyone could ever ride a charter flight as a non-rev.

 

I actually believe that there's plenty of fault all the way around. Freddie and Fannie were/are corrupt, banks knowingly made loans to high risk clients, and the recession put many otherwise responsible homeowners out of work with no way to meet their mortgage obligations. Walking away from a commitment with the ability to still make payments is one thing, losing your job and income and having no way to pay yor mortgage is wholly different. I think we're seeing a combination of both.

 

Pax,

The first paragraph of my post, that you quoted, described a charter flight and then parenthetically said "not unlike Delta paying for all the DCI costs and in some cases Delta even owns the aircraft".

The idea was to compare Delta's "wet leasing" (the phrase I used in my earlier post) of DCI carrier aircraft to a charter operation. This is from Wikipedia: [I've added Delta and DCI for clarity.]

A wet lease is a leasing arrangement whereby one airline (lessor) (DCI) provides an aircraft, complete crew, maintenance, and insurance (ACMI) to an airline (Delta) [or other type of business acting as a broker of air travel] (the lessee) (Delta), which pays by hours operated. The lessee (Delta) provides fuel and covers airport fees, and any other duties, taxes, etc. The flight uses the flight number of the lessee (Delta). A wet lease generally lasts one month to two years; anything less would be considered an ad-hoc charter.

In your response you said "I know better than to think anyone could ever ride a charter flight as a non-rev."

The definitions from Wikipedia basically differentiate a wet lease from a charter on the basis of the length of the contract. Put slightly differently, Delta could be said to have long-term charter contracts with DCI carriers.

So with that explanation perhaps you can see why I feel the way I do.

 

Buzz (and Carl),

Don't forget the shenanigans on the part of Goldman Sachs, et al. regarding the bundling of sub-prime mortgages and passing off the bundles as being "Investment Grade".

In the case of GS they then made bets against the very investment products they sold and denied they had a Fiduciary Responsibility. Great integrity!

Note: Guess who was recently appointed to the board of Goldman Sachs?
You may have missed this, but none other than the infamous Michelle Burns.

For the FNWA folks... She was the genius who created the bankruptcy proof golden parachutes for Leo Mullin and company and made the decision to sell Delta's fuel hedges (which in part drove Delta into bankruptcy).