Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-30-2011, 06:02 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
How about "Latest and greatest" about Delta? Too many Neal Cavuto wannabees on this sight lately. Rumors and news about Delta would be great.
12-30-2011, 06:13 AM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
This needs to happen not only in America in general but in our profession in particular. I structure my finances so that I can survive on 50 hours of FO pay on our lowest paying equipment (including our horrible theoretical 190/CR7 rates) and anything above that is used for savings, toys and underboob.
On a related note, the college bubble is stretching as we speak and its going to pop anyway and pop hard. Before the inevitable happens, barfing 6 figures at every single offspring no matter what to get degrees in self-discovery with a minor in right of passage, reading stuff that's on the internet for free that is guaranteed to only net them a part time barista job if they're lucky is a great place to find the money needed to live well beneath one's means, which is a hard core necessity in our industry not an option. It blows my mind that so many people so unquestionably hand over massive amounts of money to a semi-obselete system that produces rapidly dimishing returns. Then there's the vacation homes, new cars/boats/planes, etc.
I'm not talking about people who can truly afford it. And I'm not talking about people who have experienced genuine and prolonged cash draining hardships. I'm talking about the self induced paycheck to paycheck person that loses everything as soon as anything happens even though they've make 6 figures for a very long time and then some. We are worth a heck of a lot more than what we are getting and we need to be willing to strike if necessary to get it, but we need to be able to live on less. Maybe I'm out of touch but that's a lesson that growing up poor taught me and it baffles me that anyone better off doesn't already think that way cause I'm no where near the coldest beer in the fridge. If I get it, how can anyone not? Then you run into a guy who bought a 600K vacation home and lives max line to max line with no cushion. That just doesn't compute to me. Whiskey Tango What?
It is crucial that we as a group become financially able to weather storms. Ironically, being over extended hurts our ability to negotiate better compensation in the first place. Management loves dealing with a group that needs their next paycheck desperately. I'd like to see us take that leverage away from them.
On a related note, the college bubble is stretching as we speak and its going to pop anyway and pop hard. Before the inevitable happens, barfing 6 figures at every single offspring no matter what to get degrees in self-discovery with a minor in right of passage, reading stuff that's on the internet for free that is guaranteed to only net them a part time barista job if they're lucky is a great place to find the money needed to live well beneath one's means, which is a hard core necessity in our industry not an option. It blows my mind that so many people so unquestionably hand over massive amounts of money to a semi-obselete system that produces rapidly dimishing returns. Then there's the vacation homes, new cars/boats/planes, etc.
I'm not talking about people who can truly afford it. And I'm not talking about people who have experienced genuine and prolonged cash draining hardships. I'm talking about the self induced paycheck to paycheck person that loses everything as soon as anything happens even though they've make 6 figures for a very long time and then some. We are worth a heck of a lot more than what we are getting and we need to be willing to strike if necessary to get it, but we need to be able to live on less. Maybe I'm out of touch but that's a lesson that growing up poor taught me and it baffles me that anyone better off doesn't already think that way cause I'm no where near the coldest beer in the fridge. If I get it, how can anyone not? Then you run into a guy who bought a 600K vacation home and lives max line to max line with no cushion. That just doesn't compute to me. Whiskey Tango What?
It is crucial that we as a group become financially able to weather storms. Ironically, being over extended hurts our ability to negotiate better compensation in the first place. Management loves dealing with a group that needs their next paycheck desperately. I'd like to see us take that leverage away from them.
Yeah....you're going to be broke if you marry this!
12-30-2011, 07:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Some good posts here on the arrogance of calling commuting a choice... I read all the comments, and it just astounded me how many pilots wrote in derogatory comments towards commuters making their own "choice" and having to live with it... It only takes one example of "false" to make a sweeping generality like this wrong.
I'm in a house, bought at market price for an AVERAGE 4 BR in 2005, that is now $250,000 upside down. I can't move. When I joined the company, BEFORE getting furloughed for 6 years, there were DFW, MCO, ANC options for living which no longer exist--and those were my top 3 choices! I DID move to DFW, and then I got furloughed...for 6 years. When I got recalled, guess what? I'd bought a house near my job that got me through furlough... just the way a "good Delta non-commuter should" apparently. And now I'm stuck there unless someone will give me $250k to move. And all three places I desired to live are no longer options. And I've been bumped out the bottom of all west coast spots I could hold as lineholder in 2007, SEA, LAX, and SLC briefly, so even if I HAD been magically able to move to base due to a $250k gift, I would have gotten displaced again!
Here's the breakdown of commuters by base:
ATL 38%
DTW 78%
MSP 40%... but that includes a bunch of 330 guys who claimed non-commuting, higher now.
NYC 77%... doesn't include the new 320 nums, virtually all commuters, so higher now
LAX 42%
SLC 36%
SEA 45%
MEM... survey was around 45% total, but will now be essentially 100% for a while
CVG 4%, so all live in base, expect 96% commuters min when CVG closes soon.
When pilots see right in front of them mandatory displacements and base closures and shrinking category lists and airframe types disappearing, then can not draw the obvious and logical conclusion that this creates commuters, it surprises me. When they come on a board like this, or answer a survey question, stating commuting is a choice, implicitly assuming that everyone in the world can just pick up and move to ATL if they REALLLLLLY wanted to... the arrogance and insensitivity to other folks possible life problems is astounding.
I'm in a house, bought at market price for an AVERAGE 4 BR in 2005, that is now $250,000 upside down. I can't move. When I joined the company, BEFORE getting furloughed for 6 years, there were DFW, MCO, ANC options for living which no longer exist--and those were my top 3 choices! I DID move to DFW, and then I got furloughed...for 6 years. When I got recalled, guess what? I'd bought a house near my job that got me through furlough... just the way a "good Delta non-commuter should" apparently. And now I'm stuck there unless someone will give me $250k to move. And all three places I desired to live are no longer options. And I've been bumped out the bottom of all west coast spots I could hold as lineholder in 2007, SEA, LAX, and SLC briefly, so even if I HAD been magically able to move to base due to a $250k gift, I would have gotten displaced again!
Here's the breakdown of commuters by base:
ATL 38%
DTW 78%
MSP 40%... but that includes a bunch of 330 guys who claimed non-commuting, higher now.
NYC 77%... doesn't include the new 320 nums, virtually all commuters, so higher now
LAX 42%
SLC 36%
SEA 45%
MEM... survey was around 45% total, but will now be essentially 100% for a while
CVG 4%, so all live in base, expect 96% commuters min when CVG closes soon.
When pilots see right in front of them mandatory displacements and base closures and shrinking category lists and airframe types disappearing, then can not draw the obvious and logical conclusion that this creates commuters, it surprises me. When they come on a board like this, or answer a survey question, stating commuting is a choice, implicitly assuming that everyone in the world can just pick up and move to ATL if they REALLLLLLY wanted to... the arrogance and insensitivity to other folks possible life problems is astounding.
12-30-2011, 07:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: "Prof" button manipulator
Posts: 1,685
For all the SWA luv'ers out there. 
(80Kts & FTB "gettin down" on New Year's Eve)
A Safe and Happy New Year's Eve weekend to all!!
GJ
(80Kts & FTB "gettin down" on New Year's Eve)
A Safe and Happy New Year's Eve weekend to all!!
GJ
12-30-2011, 08:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 1st year pay for the 3rd time
Posts: 1,434
Carl,
To add a little to the discussion. The Federal government had a huge hand in creating this bubble. In a previous life I used to sell identity and access management software to banks so they could meet GLBA regulations. Back then banks were threatened with FDIC audits if they didn't loan enough money to folks with poor credit scores. The banks were also told that it was in their best interest to buy stock in Fanny & Freddy. Having littlenchoice, the banks made those loans, and then sold them as fast as possible to F&F.
Goldman Sachs on the other hand should have some people sitting in jail for selling these derivatives all the while shorting the housing market.
Maybe we should go back to the old ways where you are either a bank or an investment firm, not both.
To add a little to the discussion. The Federal government had a huge hand in creating this bubble. In a previous life I used to sell identity and access management software to banks so they could meet GLBA regulations. Back then banks were threatened with FDIC audits if they didn't loan enough money to folks with poor credit scores. The banks were also told that it was in their best interest to buy stock in Fanny & Freddy. Having littlenchoice, the banks made those loans, and then sold them as fast as possible to F&F.
Goldman Sachs on the other hand should have some people sitting in jail for selling these derivatives all the while shorting the housing market.
Maybe we should go back to the old ways where you are either a bank or an investment firm, not both.
I know this is going to sound hardass in this day of undeserved self-affirmation, but none of the financial and investment misjudgment you've stated here caused the extreme home valuation rise...that was caused by the home buyer who agreed to buy their homes at prices that were almost doubling every two years when inflation was not. When buyers are willing to pay any price for something, a bubble will ensue.
Also, none of the financial and investment misjudgment you've stated caused home valuations to collapse. That was caused by people walking away from their contractual promises to pay those mortgages when home prices stopped doubling every two years. Mom and pop speculators were buying as many homes as their leverage would allow, betting that prices would continue to skyrocket. When the speculators walked away from their promises to pay, the bubble burst. Now we have websites devoted to teaching you how to walk away from a mortgage you can afford, but to free yourself from a home you've paid too much for. Its an outrageous example of what happens when too many of us lose our moral compass. And banks have noticed this missing moral compass. Thus loans have dried up. This should come as no surprise to anyone.
Carl
Also, none of the financial and investment misjudgment you've stated caused home valuations to collapse. That was caused by people walking away from their contractual promises to pay those mortgages when home prices stopped doubling every two years. Mom and pop speculators were buying as many homes as their leverage would allow, betting that prices would continue to skyrocket. When the speculators walked away from their promises to pay, the bubble burst. Now we have websites devoted to teaching you how to walk away from a mortgage you can afford, but to free yourself from a home you've paid too much for. Its an outrageous example of what happens when too many of us lose our moral compass. And banks have noticed this missing moral compass. Thus loans have dried up. This should come as no surprise to anyone.
Carl
12-30-2011, 08:41 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl,
To add a little to the discussion. The Federal government had a huge hand in creating this bubble. In a previous life I used to sell identity and access management software to banks so they could meet GLBA regulations. Back then banks were threatened with FDIC audits if they didn't loan enough money to folks with poor credit scores. The banks were also told that it was in their best interest to buy stock in Fanny & Freddy. Having littlenchoice, the banks made those loans, and then sold them as fast as possible to F&F.
Goldman Sachs on the other hand should have some people sitting in jail for selling these derivatives all the while shorting the housing market.
Maybe we should go back to the old ways where you are either a bank or an investment firm, not both.
To add a little to the discussion. The Federal government had a huge hand in creating this bubble. In a previous life I used to sell identity and access management software to banks so they could meet GLBA regulations. Back then banks were threatened with FDIC audits if they didn't loan enough money to folks with poor credit scores. The banks were also told that it was in their best interest to buy stock in Fanny & Freddy. Having littlenchoice, the banks made those loans, and then sold them as fast as possible to F&F.
Goldman Sachs on the other hand should have some people sitting in jail for selling these derivatives all the while shorting the housing market.
Maybe we should go back to the old ways where you are either a bank or an investment firm, not both.
But for the first 10 years after high school graduation, I was one of those poor sots that didn't even have a credit score because I was so broke. It was southern California in the late seventies when real estate was going straight up. I had buddies willing to "hook me up" and get in on it even though I couldn't afford it. I didn't do it. Why? Because I couldn't afford it unless my income never went backwards. All my old buds went broke in the 80's when socal real estate went bust.
The moral of this ever repeating story is simple. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you buy it anyway, it's your own damn fault. There will always be financial instruments available to give you the dreams you can't afford. If you fall for it, it's your fault.
Carl
12-30-2011, 09:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Lil Bus A
Posts: 412
Ad for China Job Fair
Hi Guys, Just checking the L&G thread and now have a Ad for a China Job Fair (Land a Dream Job Flying in China)
Pan Am and WASINC, China's largest pilot leasing company are pleased to announce the 2012 All-China Pilot Job Fair for hundreds of international candidates at Pan Am's Miami and Las Vegas Training Centers. This Job Fair is specifically designed for commercial pilots seeking jobs in China, an ever-growing exploding region with tremendous opportunities.
Ten major Chinese Airlines will have representatives in attendance, including:
Shenzhen Airlines
Air China
Hainan Airlines
Tianjin Airlines
Sichuan Airlines
Xiamen Airlines
Chengdu Airlines
Spring Airlines
Okair
West Air
Business Aviation Asia
Airline interviews and evaluations Attendees will have the opportunity to pass evaluations, meet and greet the hiring airlines, and formally interview. Qualifying pilots will receive on the spot conditional offers.
Pilot Presentations - What's it like working in China Attendees will have the opportunity to participate in an open forum workshop where they will hear commercial pilots currently flying for Chinese airlines share their insights and answer questions.
Visiting VIPS Representatives from China's CAAC, as well as US Government officials will be in attendance.
Open house & qualified use of simulator fleet Airlines and candidates will have access to Pan Am's training facilities and a vast fleet of commercial jet simulators for qualified flight tests. A complete listing of Miami Simulators and Las Vegas Simulators can be viewed here.
Participant Pre-Qualifications Registration is required in order to receive a personal interview including simulator evaluation. Applicants must meet the following minimum requirements in order to receive an interview (requirements may vary slightly by airline).
Must have 500 hours PIC time on type
Must have 3000+ hours total time
Last flight must be within 12 months
Airlines in attendance will be looking for Captains on the following aircraft: B777, B747-400, B767, B737NG and EFIS, A340, A330, A320, EMB190, EMB145.
Fees and Registration This event is FREE to qualified pilots. Pre-registration is required. Registration includes entry and a clearance pass to attend general speaker session, interviews, and workshops. To register click China Job Fair Registration and include your name and contact information in the email. A confirmation email will be returned. Or you may register by calling Pan Am International flight academy within the US toll free at 1-877-394-2118. Seating is limited. Register early to guarantee your participation.
This won't work for me, as I have been flying old jets my whole career. They aren't looking for DC9, DC10, B727, D737-200 & B747-200 guys, but maybe some of you Busboys (Ferd) & NG (Buzz) guys might want to take a look.
Pan Am and WASINC, China's largest pilot leasing company are pleased to announce the 2012 All-China Pilot Job Fair for hundreds of international candidates at Pan Am's Miami and Las Vegas Training Centers. This Job Fair is specifically designed for commercial pilots seeking jobs in China, an ever-growing exploding region with tremendous opportunities.
Ten major Chinese Airlines will have representatives in attendance, including:
Shenzhen Airlines
Air China
Hainan Airlines
Tianjin Airlines
Sichuan Airlines
Xiamen Airlines
Chengdu Airlines
Spring Airlines
Okair
West Air
Business Aviation Asia
Airline interviews and evaluations Attendees will have the opportunity to pass evaluations, meet and greet the hiring airlines, and formally interview. Qualifying pilots will receive on the spot conditional offers.
Pilot Presentations - What's it like working in China Attendees will have the opportunity to participate in an open forum workshop where they will hear commercial pilots currently flying for Chinese airlines share their insights and answer questions.
Visiting VIPS Representatives from China's CAAC, as well as US Government officials will be in attendance.
Open house & qualified use of simulator fleet Airlines and candidates will have access to Pan Am's training facilities and a vast fleet of commercial jet simulators for qualified flight tests. A complete listing of Miami Simulators and Las Vegas Simulators can be viewed here.
Participant Pre-Qualifications Registration is required in order to receive a personal interview including simulator evaluation. Applicants must meet the following minimum requirements in order to receive an interview (requirements may vary slightly by airline).
Must have 500 hours PIC time on type
Must have 3000+ hours total time
Last flight must be within 12 months
Airlines in attendance will be looking for Captains on the following aircraft: B777, B747-400, B767, B737NG and EFIS, A340, A330, A320, EMB190, EMB145.
Fees and Registration This event is FREE to qualified pilots. Pre-registration is required. Registration includes entry and a clearance pass to attend general speaker session, interviews, and workshops. To register click China Job Fair Registration and include your name and contact information in the email. A confirmation email will be returned. Or you may register by calling Pan Am International flight academy within the US toll free at 1-877-394-2118. Seating is limited. Register early to guarantee your participation.
This won't work for me, as I have been flying old jets my whole career. They aren't looking for DC9, DC10, B727, D737-200 & B747-200 guys, but maybe some of you Busboys (Ferd) & NG (Buzz) guys might want to take a look.
12-30-2011, 09:24 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL717A
Posts: 890
I wonder if the ex-pat flying the E-145 in a dust mask would rather be a Delta captain?
I've been bombarded by these ads and e mails lately - they must really be hurtin' for warm bodies.
I've been bombarded by these ads and e mails lately - they must really be hurtin' for warm bodies.
12-30-2011, 09:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
OK, here's Mr. Hardass again. In the theoretical example I've bolded above, that means a pilot would have bought a 500,000 home (since most areas have dropped by 50%). If a pilot who was in a position to be furloughed paid 500,000 for a home, that is HIS problem and his societal DUTY to pay it back. Notwithstanding the unbelievably poor judgment that shows, he has a duty to pay that back.
Carl
Carl
But, the point I am trying to make, which I'm not sure you disagree with, is that not everyone who has defaulted or will default on this promise made a bad decision when they decided to buy a house.
People make plans and they make decisions based on those plans, and sometimes they don't work out.
Are you really meaning to imply that when you signed your mortgage papers that your repayment to the bank was a guaranteed, sure fire thing?
Are you really suggesting that people who don't pay their mortgages be prosecuted? Do you mean criminally?
If your answer to any of these questions is yes, I would love to share an ocean crossing with you. We would have a lot to discuss.
12-30-2011, 09:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,097
Totally agree here with every word.
But for the first 10 years after high school graduation, I was one of those poor sots that didn't even have a credit score because I was so broke. It was southern California in the late seventies when real estate was going straight up. I had buddies willing to "hook me up" and get in on it even though I couldn't afford it. I didn't do it. Why? Because I couldn't afford it unless my income never went backwards. All my old buds went broke in the 80's when socal real estate went bust.
The moral of this ever repeating story is simple. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you buy it anyway, it's your own damn fault. There will always be financial instruments available to give you the dreams you can't afford. If you fall for it, it's your fault.
Carl
But for the first 10 years after high school graduation, I was one of those poor sots that didn't even have a credit score because I was so broke. It was southern California in the late seventies when real estate was going straight up. I had buddies willing to "hook me up" and get in on it even though I couldn't afford it. I didn't do it. Why? Because I couldn't afford it unless my income never went backwards. All my old buds went broke in the 80's when socal real estate went bust.
The moral of this ever repeating story is simple. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you buy it anyway, it's your own damn fault. There will always be financial instruments available to give you the dreams you can't afford. If you fall for it, it's your fault.
Carl
I believe one of the biggest problems with education in America, is that we don't teach teenagers/high schoolers basic life skills ...
-Checking accounts, how they work, how to balance them, what happens when you bounce a check
-Credit cards, the good, the bad, the ugly
-Interest and how it can make you rich or poor
-What is a contract/lease
-What is wage garnishment
-Free resources for financial help, job training, job search, etc.
-The judicial system and you
-How to buy a home
-Renting versus owning
-Savings accounts
-401ks
-Car insurance, medical insurance
etc.etc.
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