Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-18-2012 | 08:05 AM
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From: 737 ATL
Carl-
I hear what you're saying. I don't doubt your loyalty to the pilots.
But you also have to face facts. Whether its justified or not, DPA's mere presence drives the ALPA guys insane. They perceive DPA as a mortal threat. The machine in Herndon probably feels especially threatened. The loss of Delta would mean their demise.
You and I might see the DPA website and donut give-away as a small distraction. But it frightens ALPA to the point of devoting time and resources that need to be directed toward the contract right now.
Don't have a BBQ. Shut it down for 2012. Its the right thing to do.
If DALPA brings us a lousy TA in 2012, then I will wear my DPA apron and fry steaks all day until we get enough signatures to boot them out.
I hear what you're saying. I don't doubt your loyalty to the pilots.
But you also have to face facts. Whether its justified or not, DPA's mere presence drives the ALPA guys insane. They perceive DPA as a mortal threat. The machine in Herndon probably feels especially threatened. The loss of Delta would mean their demise.
You and I might see the DPA website and donut give-away as a small distraction. But it frightens ALPA to the point of devoting time and resources that need to be directed toward the contract right now.
Don't have a BBQ. Shut it down for 2012. Its the right thing to do.
If DALPA brings us a lousy TA in 2012, then I will wear my DPA apron and fry steaks all day until we get enough signatures to boot them out.
02-18-2012 | 08:05 AM
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
Well, you've always been a great voice of reason around here. Maybe they will shut it down then because they're probably getting more advice like this from folks like you.
I can't imagine the sigh of relief DALPA will exhale if that happens. They know the momentum will have been broken, and it will take two years to get it back. And two years after the contract will be the perfect timing for the DALPA guys to come out and say: "I know you're p!ssed at us for that last contract, but don't do this now guys...the openers are going to be exchanged just around the corner. We've got to show unity to management."
And the cycle repeats.
Oh well.
Carl
I can't imagine the sigh of relief DALPA will exhale if that happens. They know the momentum will have been broken, and it will take two years to get it back. And two years after the contract will be the perfect timing for the DALPA guys to come out and say: "I know you're p!ssed at us for that last contract, but don't do this now guys...the openers are going to be exchanged just around the corner. We've got to show unity to management."
And the cycle repeats.
Oh well.
Carl
02-18-2012 | 08:13 AM
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From: 765-A
I don't think we'll look disunited with DPA out there, but I do think at this point, it's crowding the discussion.
All I want to hear right now, is "pay, scope, benefits, benefits, scope, pay."
If we're presented with a TA that doesn't address these things, then it's on.
02-18-2012 | 08:13 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
I guess it is what it is.
Carl
02-18-2012 | 08:14 AM
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Just my Saturday morning 2 cents worth--
Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
It will be better to move forward as a unified group.
02-18-2012 | 08:17 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
You can keep it open. But, after what seems be years of discussing DPA vs. DALPA, I'm ready to refocus on getting paid.
I don't think we'll look disunited with DPA out there, but I do think at this point, it's crowding the discussion.
All I want to hear right now, is "pay, scope, benefits, benefits, scope, pay."
If we're presented with a TA that doesn't address these things, then it's on.
I don't think we'll look disunited with DPA out there, but I do think at this point, it's crowding the discussion.
All I want to hear right now, is "pay, scope, benefits, benefits, scope, pay."
If we're presented with a TA that doesn't address these things, then it's on.
Carl
02-18-2012 | 08:22 AM
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With regard to getting behind the pilot group and the reps, that has always been the case. This effort has not been a mutually exclusive proposition. You can offer a process for change while being behind the current representation. In my case, I do it because there's no other option...not because I believe in this morally bankrupt, self-interested institution that currently represents us.
Carl
02-18-2012 | 08:23 AM
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From: 765-A
Well, you've always been a great voice of reason around here. Maybe they will shut it down then because they're probably getting more advice like this from folks like you.
I can't imagine the sigh of relief DALPA will exhale if that happens. They know the momentum will have been broken, and it will take two years to get it back. And two years after the contract will be the perfect timing for the DALPA guys to come out and say: "I know you're p!ssed at us for that last contract, but don't do this now guys...the openers are going to be exchanged just around the corner. We've got to show unity to management."
And the cycle repeats.
Oh well.
Carl
I can't imagine the sigh of relief DALPA will exhale if that happens. They know the momentum will have been broken, and it will take two years to get it back. And two years after the contract will be the perfect timing for the DALPA guys to come out and say: "I know you're p!ssed at us for that last contract, but don't do this now guys...the openers are going to be exchanged just around the corner. We've got to show unity to management."
And the cycle repeats.
Oh well.
Carl
If it's crap and it gets voted down, they have to know they will be well on their way to getting booted.
02-18-2012 | 08:31 AM
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That's certainly reasonable to me, but some other very reasonable voices here are saying we need to shut it down now. Some don't want to be used as an excuse for blame by DALPA after they fail, and some don't think we can do both things simultaneously. If it was coming from the usual DALPA suspects, I wouldn't pay any attention to it at all. But it's coming from really reasonable people.
Carl
Carl
I would prefer an in house union with a loose association with ALPA to what we have now, but we need to be united now more than ever moving forward into sec 6. Just my 2 cents.
02-18-2012 | 08:59 AM
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From: 767ER capt
Great post. ALPA will decide their own fate with our next contract, period. If more jobs are conceded and the pay rates are not around SWA, then DPA will have very little work to do and ALPA will more than likely be toast. If however, ALPA holds the line on Scope and puts forth some respectable pay raises, DPA's road will be longer.
It will be better to move forward as a unified group.
It will be better to move forward as a unified group.
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