Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Just my Saturday morning 2 cents worth--

alfa-
You're taking this too personally. You gotta face the fact that a lot of people just don't trust ALPA. And its not just a tiny forum-dwelling minority. Its a large group. They are afraid the MEC is more worried about the company's health than they are about the members who put them in office and pay the dues. Your most recent posts only feed that perception.
Its unsettling and somewhat disorienting to see the union guys taking a bit too much pride in the corporation's success and seeming to defend management while the pilot group is still working under the bankruptcy contract. Its time to show the rank and file some results. We're hurting out here.
Whether or not to use the word "liquidation" is a pointless argument. Call it what you will, but the fact is we are seeing displacements and backwards training. Fix that before you tell us any more about how good the Delta balance sheet looks.

Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
alfa-
You're taking this too personally. You gotta face the fact that a lot of people just don't trust ALPA. And its not just a tiny forum-dwelling minority. Its a large group. They are afraid the MEC is more worried about the company's health than they are about the members who put them in office and pay the dues. Your most recent posts only feed that perception.
Its unsettling and somewhat disorienting to see the union guys taking a bit too much pride in the corporation's success and seeming to defend management while the pilot group is still working under the bankruptcy contract. Its time to show the rank and file some results. We're hurting out here.
Whether or not to use the word "liquidation" is a pointless argument. Call it what you will, but the fact is we are seeing displacements and backwards training. Fix that before you tell us any more about how good the Delta balance sheet looks.

Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
Carl
I respect you and hope to meet you soon. Wear the hat. You don't have to like it. It'll boost your street cred. When I see guys with it and not wearing it, or without it, I pause and wonder who they think they're proving themselves to. Our employer wants us to wear it, I'll wear it. I don't have to like it.
I respect you and hope to meet you soon. Wear the hat. You don't have to like it. It'll boost your street cred. When I see guys with it and not wearing it, or without it, I pause and wonder who they think they're proving themselves to. Our employer wants us to wear it, I'll wear it. I don't have to like it.
Yeah but it is much classier to just carry it in one hand while you walk down the concourse.. better yet, just let it ride on the top of your roll aboard so that you have a free hand for your Starbucks.
Nevermind... talking to Carl is a total waste of time.
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
How to make the hat useful, now this is truly a public service forum!
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
But is ALPA even interested, willing or able to deliver this though? If we reign in the AS code share abuse, doesn't ALPA have to sign off on something that "harms" another ALPA group? If we reign in RJ outsourcing, doesn't ALPA have to do the same thing?
Speaking of the insane 255 modern DC-9-10 fleet at the DCIs, a large portion of which are ALPA, has DALPA "met and conferred" with the other MEC's yet?
If not, when? If so, what was said?
If we "aren't allowed to know" then that means DCI MEC's will be privy to DALPA negotiating strategies and knowledge that the DL pilots won't be allowed to know.
Likewise, regardless of the secrecy of it all, if C2012 does not significantly reduce outsourcing (or maybe doesn't even reduce it at all!) a very strong case can be made for the inherent ALPA conflict of interest that many, DPA supporters or not, have been saying is an irreconcilable flaw to begin with.
Ask yourself if you really have faith in ALPA national and/or DALPA (at all levels, not just some great reps here or there, which DALPA absolutely does have) to be willing and able to fight hard for scope recapture. Many doubt ALPA at any level has that resolve and/or ability but that's technically just opinion at this point. But the comprehensive lack of specifics is a fact.
When we ask ALPA/DALPA about scope recapture we get responses that would rival a career politician with a glass of water sitting at a long table in front of a Congressional inquiry.
Now, maybe ALPA/DALPA will hit a home run WRT all the things you mentioned, including scope. But if that doesn't happen, and maybe even if things get worse (but even if they stay at the same level of unacceptability) then will it be better or worse to at that point have a potential alternative that's ben saying "see I told you so" that at least has some momentum and 4000 cards already in the cue, or have to start over on the ground floor? Or try Teamsters? Or another in house? Or go rogue with TWU?
I don't think the "donut" drive is much of a threat if ALPA/DALPA does right by this pilot group. It will fizzle out on its own at that point, as it should. But if we don't take a VERY significant bite out of outsourcing, its may be time to call BINGO and go to an alternate.
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 5
I think we have to bring the attention of how much the difference between SWA Capts and DAL Capts pay rates are. Now while sitting in ATL, I think I WILL let all the SWA jets cut me off on the radio and taxi in front of me so I can sit there and tell the Capt, "I let him in front because he makes more than you"..
Set the parking brake if your that upset about it, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx when you think I should and should not wear my hat lol.
I left it at F4 the other day in MSP, CPSC called a bunch of times and then it just ended up on my doorstep 2 time zones away. Like the worst boomerang I've ever had!
relax-
Last edited by Launchpad475; 02-18-2012 at 01:22 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post






