Originally Posted by Doug Masters

A 1.2 billion dollar profit and SWA paying 52% more than our -88 rate should be a game changer

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg

I saw an ALPA rep yesterday in the ATL airport (he identified himself and said he was going to DC for upcoming meetings). I asked him about the upcoming contract and possible raises and he stated "AMR has changed the game." I actually put him in his place saying "We already have done things in our BK that AMR has yet to do (PBS, loss of pensions, etc), and our airline is also nowhere close to AA in terms of losses. Our airline has done VERY well." He tried to back track of course, saying "Of course, of course" but I told him stearnly that the DPA was catching on, and if this future TA is weak, he should expect to go back to the line full time." He didn't like that, but I think he got the picture.

Originally Posted by gloopy

Interesting angle, I hadn't though to that one.

But I still wonder how much of a short course it would be. Best case I would guess would be like a 320 to 330 type of a program. That's all well and good, but it would still be a new category that would generate multipile system wide rebids regardless of freezes.

Add in the self imposed training onslaught just to "save" a few clicks on the pay scale for a year or so before another self imposed training onslaught just in time for the big retirement wave and it really makes you go hmmmmmmm.

HI and AS wouldn't generate much if any capacity pull down. Not enough to even make a dent in imminent hiring anyway.

Large pieces of AA, USAir and/or JB on the other hand, would represent a golden opportunity to slaughter our seniority list by adding capacity just to dump large portions of it and taking the bulk out of DL pilot's careers.

Either that or there's some serious 4th floor giddiness over potential future cabotage in one form or another.

Originally Posted by gloopy

I still don't see why anyone would lobby for relief from the 1500 hours on the civilian side. That won't help meet demand at all and in fact will actually serve to hurt demand. Even 1000 means the vast majority will have to instruct for a while (750ish hours), likely at the university level. But it creates self imposed brain drain at an earlier point at the very programs that are being used to justify the lower mins.

If they kept it 1500 for civie FO candidates, it would guarantee that not only the university programs but also the other 141 and 61 schools would be able to get more instructing out of pilots before they lose them. The problem is getting qualified pilots into and through the pipeline, not getting them hired soon enough. Cannibalizing the CFI's sooner just to appease the RAA spastic "by any means necessary" mentality for covering flights means fewer instructors with less experience to train an increasing demand for new pilots. That was some of the dumbest airline lobbying I think I've ever seen.

That extra 500 hours is nothing and will happen in a matter of a few months yet would allow each CFI to train more future pilots, which will be necessary to cover not only "normal" attrition/wash out rates the profession at that stage has always seen, but poor return on investment generated attrition if the career doesn't start to improve.

Some of the colleges probably lobbied for it on the assumption that it will be a huge selling point to new pilots. But being able to skip 500 hours that someone else is paying you to get and that you will build in a few months is a very small carrot that probably isn't going to justify the enormously higher costs commonly associated with those types of schools in the first place.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Sailingfun! Welcome back. I know you probably forgot, but there was a pending question to you from the floor when you last left us. For review, here it is again:





Wouldn't want you to forget.

Carl

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Originally Posted by Superpilot92

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

I ran into a Fedex MD11A friend today at Costco. He is just finishing LCA training and has his first OE coming up for a new hire placed directly into ANC MD11. Btw, he has 17 years seniority there.

Thought I'd pass that years of service along for comparison and contrast.