Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-19-2012 | 05:25 PM
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I can't tell if the new reserve will be better for worse. I'll let you know in a few months. There are things on reserve that have definitely gotten better. One is being able to trade days off. The grouping requirements used to be a lot more strict.
01-19-2012 | 05:35 PM
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From: Light Chop
BTW, the old system wasn't all about who got to avoid flying, but also who got to perform flying.
With the RAW system, it's almost impossible to fly much more, wo we're conditioned to ask ourselves why the other guy isn't getting screwed also. IOW, since we're all going to get very close to 70 hrs, +/- 1 or 2, we don't want to fly, and we're thinking in terms of spreading the pain.
But under the old system, a senior commuter could opt to bid high, fly his butt off, and finish early. They RAW system ensures this can't happen: you have to commute in, but you can't necessarily escape skywards, if your score is higher than another pilot's, and only one trip is up for grabs. You're a prisoner, whether you're senior or junior.
The only benefit to the current system of being senior is that it lets you bid for days off.
We can do better, and large RAW buckets are only a small step in that direction.
With the RAW system, it's almost impossible to fly much more, wo we're conditioned to ask ourselves why the other guy isn't getting screwed also. IOW, since we're all going to get very close to 70 hrs, +/- 1 or 2, we don't want to fly, and we're thinking in terms of spreading the pain.
But under the old system, a senior commuter could opt to bid high, fly his butt off, and finish early. They RAW system ensures this can't happen: you have to commute in, but you can't necessarily escape skywards, if your score is higher than another pilot's, and only one trip is up for grabs. You're a prisoner, whether you're senior or junior.
The only benefit to the current system of being senior is that it lets you bid for days off.
We can do better, and large RAW buckets are only a small step in that direction.
I'd take those without the bucket system.
But I'm okay with the bucket system even with it being seniority based, just not an 80 one. I'm hoping and pushing, not that it matters, so that my category doesn't go that high.
01-19-2012 | 05:46 PM
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From: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Sink, seniority already buys pilots nearly 2/3rds of the month off. I haven't cracked 30 yet, and there have been only a few months this past year that i passed 80 and not by much. Meanwhile because of the way weekends are now staffed those guys routinely break 100-120 raw scores. Seniority is already in play and there are two buckets, weekends off and no weekends off which is rarely fly or always fly. Seniority does matter and it should.
Seniority should be in place to ensure you can work the trip you want when you have to work but not give you the month off while the guy 1 junior works the entire month in your place. Seniority with a line for the same amount of pay doesn't get you time off. It gets you the days and trips you want. On reserve it used to get you the days, and adding some weight for sc days and trip preferencing when you do have to work makes sense. I'm okay with bringing back a high yellow, add 15 points to your score, have at it.
But I am not going to champion a cause where one never has to work and others pick up his load for the same amount of money.
The way I see it this is like telling every pilot in a category that the top 5% will be paid ALV and have the month off because they're the top 5%, now carry on. Oh wait, except that the rest of you will need to pick up their work for no credit starting not with the plug but rather in reverse seniority order starting with Mr 50%.
Seniority should be in place to ensure you can work the trip you want when you have to work but not give you the month off while the guy 1 junior works the entire month in your place. Seniority with a line for the same amount of pay doesn't get you time off. It gets you the days and trips you want. On reserve it used to get you the days, and adding some weight for sc days and trip preferencing when you do have to work makes sense. I'm okay with bringing back a high yellow, add 15 points to your score, have at it.
But I am not going to champion a cause where one never has to work and others pick up his load for the same amount of money.
The way I see it this is like telling every pilot in a category that the top 5% will be paid ALV and have the month off because they're the top 5%, now carry on. Oh wait, except that the rest of you will need to pick up their work for no credit starting not with the plug but rather in reverse seniority order starting with Mr 50%.
01-19-2012 | 05:48 PM
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From: A-320A
Sink, seniority already buys pilots nearly 2/3rds of the month off. I haven't cracked 30 yet, and there have been only a few months this past year that i passed 80 and not by much. Meanwhile because of the way weekends are now staffed those guys routinely break 100-120 raw scores. Seniority is already in play and there are two buckets, weekends off and no weekends off which is rarely fly or always fly. Seniority does matter and it should.
Seniority should be in place to ensure you can work the trip you want when you have to work but not give you the month off while the guy 1 junior works the entire month in your place. Seniority with a line for the same amount of pay doesn't get you time off. It gets you the days and trips you want. On reserve it used to get you the days, and adding some weight for sc days and trip preferencing when you do have to work makes sense. I'm okay with bringing back a high yellow, add 15 points to your score, have at it.
But I am not going to champion a cause where one never has to work and others pick up his load for the same amount of money.
The way I see it this is like telling every pilot in a category that the top 5% will be paid ALV and have the month off because they're the top 5%, now carry on. Oh wait, except that the rest of you will need to pick up their work for no credit starting not with the plug but rather in reverse seniority order starting with Mr 50%.
Seniority should be in place to ensure you can work the trip you want when you have to work but not give you the month off while the guy 1 junior works the entire month in your place. Seniority with a line for the same amount of pay doesn't get you time off. It gets you the days and trips you want. On reserve it used to get you the days, and adding some weight for sc days and trip preferencing when you do have to work makes sense. I'm okay with bringing back a high yellow, add 15 points to your score, have at it.
But I am not going to champion a cause where one never has to work and others pick up his load for the same amount of money.
The way I see it this is like telling every pilot in a category that the top 5% will be paid ALV and have the month off because they're the top 5%, now carry on. Oh wait, except that the rest of you will need to pick up their work for no credit starting not with the plug but rather in reverse seniority order starting with Mr 50%.
Also, FtB, given that the M88 block hrs are going to be going up by about 20% over the next few months, reaching a 80 on your raw will happen with two four day trips. Prior to this fall it took no time to get to 80 and I was generally timed out by the end of the second week. As more move in to 2013 and beyond, we will not see the over staffing that we do now. Just remember how much we generally were used prior to this latest pull down.
I might actually have to go bid a line somewhere because we know that the 14 hr SC limit on International Categories will be the last thing implemented as part of the FT/DT
Of course, YMMV
01-19-2012 | 05:53 PM
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From: A-320A
1113C. PBS and the manning changes it directed took reserve staffing down to 11-15% in each seat. The FT/DT will increase reserve staffing once again because the international pilots can only sit 14 hrs and not 24. More SC all around. It will also effect WSing because of the max duty limits put forth.
01-19-2012 | 06:01 PM
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From: A-320A
His point is that they are training in SLC, and there are ALT restrictions to be below FL230 to the East of SLC by a good bit. When checking in they always give you a climb above FL 230, so you always need to ask if it is unrestricted. There were a few issues out there with this, and the guidance is to always ask. If you stop at FL230, they generally get upset because they are planning arrivals on you being above it, even though the plate says otherwise.
Of course it takes 270 days to get a nav plate changed.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 01-19-2012 at 06:39 PM.
01-19-2012 | 06:29 PM
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From: SLC ERB
This! An actual conversation that took place this morning:
(While on a needlessly complicated departure procedure with several "cross at" or "cross at or below" altitude restrictions)
SLC Dep: Compass, climb and maintain FL350.
Me: Climb and maintain FL350, is that an unrestricted climb?
(Silence)
Me: SLC, confirm unrestricted climb for Compass.
SLC Dep: Compass, delete speed restrictions.
Me: OK, how about altitude restrictions?
SLC Dep: Climb at maintain FL350, unrestricted.
This conversation would be excusable if it happened once. I've had a variation of it on every departure out of SLC for the last two weeks and have heard it play out with many other aircraft as well. You'd think they'd get the hint!
(While on a needlessly complicated departure procedure with several "cross at" or "cross at or below" altitude restrictions)
SLC Dep: Compass, climb and maintain FL350.
Me: Climb and maintain FL350, is that an unrestricted climb?
(Silence)
Me: SLC, confirm unrestricted climb for Compass.
SLC Dep: Compass, delete speed restrictions.
Me: OK, how about altitude restrictions?
SLC Dep: Climb at maintain FL350, unrestricted.
This conversation would be excusable if it happened once. I've had a variation of it on every departure out of SLC for the last two weeks and have heard it play out with many other aircraft as well. You'd think they'd get the hint!
From the AIM:g. The guiding principle is that the last ATC clearance has precedence over the previous ATC clearance. When the route or altitude in a previously issued clearance is amended, the controller will restate applicable altitude restrictions. If altitude to maintain is changed or restated, whether prior to departure or while airborne, and previously issued altitude restrictions are omitted, those altitude restrictions are canceled, including departure procedures and STAR altitude restrictions.
01-19-2012 | 06:33 PM
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From: SLC ERB
Hos point is that they are training in SLC, and there are ALT restrictions to be below FL230 to the East of SLC by a good bit. When checking in they always give you a climb above FL 230, so you always need to ask if it is unrestricted. There were a few issues out there with this, and the guidance is to always ask. If you stop at FL230, they generally get upset because they are planning arrivals on you being above it, even though the plate says otherwise.
Of course it takes 270 days to get a nav plate changed.
Of course it takes 270 days to get a nav plate changed.
Of course, if you're not sure....
01-19-2012 | 06:38 PM
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From: A-320A
SLC is the airport he flew out of and for that reason, I stated what I did. We have seen a bunch of issues with just that out of SLC. That is why out of there, I always ask.
01-19-2012 | 06:47 PM
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Yes, but there are published hold downs on the STAR's and we all know that the AIM is well, guidance. I have been cleared to 350 out of there and queried about the hold down, and they emphatically stated they wanted us to follow the published altitudes on the STAR.
SLC is the airport he flew out of and for that reason, I stated what I did. We have seen a bunch of issues with just that out of SLC. That is why out of there, I always ask.
SLC is the airport he flew out of and for that reason, I stated what I did. We have seen a bunch of issues with just that out of SLC. That is why out of there, I always ask.
Last edited by flyallnite; 01-19-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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