acl65pilot

Take the NWA and DAL pre JPWA rates and then average the raises together.

acl65pilot

ALPA has long since predicted that AF would be hitting a very stiff headwind and guess what? They were correct. What that means is anyone's guess, but there are probably a lot of jets that AF has on order that they may not take deliver of.

DAL 88 Driver

Possibly. But I'll bet they aren't worried about anything even remotely like 42%. Just as a point of reference, they would have to take about a 35% pay cut to come down (way down) to the W2 of a typical Delta narrowbody domestic pilot.

johnso29

Hard to say. Delta is one of the better paid pilot groups in the industry. When Gary Kelly points to competitors, you can bet Delta will be included. And we are one of the better paid. I'm not implying they'll take 35% paycuts, but everyone's fun ride comes to an end eventually.

forgot to bid

Things that make FTB laugh:



Things that make 80ktsclamp happy.

Miley Cirus and birthday cakes.

acl65pilot

What do you think SWAPA is going to be able to do with AMR in CH11? What great raises did they agree to last time? How about all of that growth? How protected are they if Kelly decided to take AMR's place in OneWorld? Would SWAPA even have to be consulted given their current section one language? Is that a little short sighed given the fact that they are effectively maxed out in the domestic markets?

Lets see how SWAPA can deal with these issues. Labor peace and happiness is important to Kelly but to what extent? These questions above are ones that will test the very fiber of that relationship.

Their playing field and underdog status that allowed them to breeze though the last decade is over. They are way larger and have many more operational issues that the used to. They have a hard time competing with DAL.

As to your low ball comment about managing expectations, not at all. I think setting them as our bar is setting ours too low. How we get there is up for debate but they are well below where I know we should be compensated.

DAL 88 Driver

This is Delta. We are all Delta pilots now. Delta pilots took a cumulative total 42% pay cut (prior to and then during bankruptcy). With the pay increases we have gotten to date, it would take approximately a 67% increase to restore the buying power we had in 2004 prior to taking the cuts. NWA rates have nothing to do with any of that.

DAL 88 Driver

Well, you're entitled to your set of expectations. All I can say is that yours are obviously a lot lower than mine.

acl65pilot

If AMR survives and emerges as a ULCC guess what? they may just have to do that! AMR will be the next SWA and the cycle will repeat itself. That is why on many levels the CEO's are very intent on dealing with the possibilities of AMR now before they can sell their bag of goods. Fragmenting AMR saves the CEOs from repeating the last decade. They do not want to have to reinvent the wheel that seems to be providing them success today.

acl65pilot

He is referring to our CH11 contract and theirs to our current compensation. If you figure in the stock it is about that. The stock alone equates to about a 6-10 dollar per hour bump in rates over the first few years of our agreement. Go read Art Aaron's piece of that.

Call it 27% restoration if you want, but the total compensation improvement of both premerger groups get very close to Alfa's assertions.