Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Well, you're entitled to your set of expectations. All I can say is that yours are obviously a lot lower than mine.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

As to your low ball comment about managing expectations, not at all. I think setting them as our bar is setting ours too low. How we get there is up for debate but they are well below where I know we should be compensated.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

He is referring to our CH11 contract and theirs to our current compensation. If you figure in the stock it is about that. The stock alone equates to about a 6-10 dollar per hour bump in rates over the first few years of our agreement. Go read Art Aaron's piece of that.

Call it 27% restoration if you want, but the total compensation improvement of both premerger groups get very close to Alfa's assertions.

Originally Posted by johnso29

When did I ever say those were my expectations? I simply said Delta pilots are one of the better paid pilot groups in the industry. Compare us to others, & that's a fact. I never said our current pay rates were my expectations.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Take the NWA and DAL pre JPWA rates and then average the raises together.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

This is Delta. We are all Delta pilots now. Delta pilots took a cumulative total 42% pay cut (prior to and then during bankruptcy). With the pay increases we have gotten to date, it would take approximately a 67% increase to restore the buying power we had in 2004 prior to taking the cuts. NWA rates have nothing to do with any of that.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Well, you try to change the subject. First, I agree we all are Delta pilots now so whatever pay rate increases we got all went to Delta pilots. If some got a little more than others it doesn't matter which airline they used to work for 3 years ago. I am not sure how you can ignore that there was money put into Delta pilots pockets and it averaged 27.5%.

Originally Posted by FlyZ

Slow, I wouldn't say squandered. But I think by the time the JCBA was worked out it was already apparent that our Section 1 had huge holes. If there was a chance to make changes, any changes, I think some of these holes should have been tightened up.

I haven't been here that long, so I don't know if the relationship with mgt was more of a "gentleman's agreement" in the past. But from everything I've seen since getting here, our current mgt will take full advantage of any clause that is not fully thought out, including violating the spirit of the agreement on legal semantics. If that's to be the case, we need to "lawyer up" and stay one step ahead of the next loophole they will find. And every opportunity we have for an amended contract should close some of the loopholes.

It feels like we've been in a friendly touch football game, except now the other team has begun tackling. If we keep on using only our "constructive engagement" policy, they will continue to run over us, all the while telling us what good pilots we are and thanking us for all we do to make the operation a success. Bless their little old hearts.

I'm no expert - that's just how I see it.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

But let's get back to the basic question, which is: which pilot groups are playing tackle football now and what have they achieved that is better than us. Certainly if your tactics are superior it should be easy to point that out and give me some examples, right?