Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-19-2012, 11:13 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: MD88 A
Posts: 51
Basically I'm just say that seniority should have a benefit, but the correction we are applying next month is too large.
01-19-2012, 11:25 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: DAL
Posts: 623
Originally Posted by Tab Flyer
. Back in the old days we had a higher guarantee
01-19-2012, 11:50 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by More Bacon
Naturally, junior guys who were able to tweak the system and get better deals (often at odds with their seniority) may feel some discomfort in the pants. But frankly, I'm glad that the system will more accurately address seniority.
Seniority should rule, Tab, don't you agree?
Seniority should rule, Tab, don't you agree?
This vacation bidding that is going on right now is a perfect example. Whassup with that? The #1 guy should be able to bid all of his vacation right off the bat. None of this primary, secondary, tertiary stuff. Total violation of seniority there.
Let pilot #1 have Christmas, Thanksgiving, 4th of July and his wife's birthday and only when he's done -- start processing the #2 guy's bids.
Except for the very bottom new hires, Juniority is a choice.
/flamebait
01-19-2012, 12:00 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: MD musical chairs
Posts: 239
Originally Posted by Check Essential
Now you're talkin'.
This vacation bidding that is going on right now is a perfect example. Whassup with that? The #1 guy should be able to bid all of his vacation right off the bat. None of this primary, secondary, tertiary stuff. Total violation of seniority there.
Let pilot #1 have Christmas, Thanksgiving, 4th of July and his wife's birthday and only when he's done -- start processing the #2 guy's bids.
Except for the very bottom new hires, Juniority is a choice.
/flamebait
This vacation bidding that is going on right now is a perfect example. Whassup with that? The #1 guy should be able to bid all of his vacation right off the bat. None of this primary, secondary, tertiary stuff. Total violation of seniority there.
Let pilot #1 have Christmas, Thanksgiving, 4th of July and his wife's birthday and only when he's done -- start processing the #2 guy's bids.
Except for the very bottom new hires, Juniority is a choice.
/flamebait
01-19-2012, 12:05 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I'm senior reserve right now in top 3rd and think this new bucket system is horrible and will be significantly effected by it.
And fwiw there is no such thing as holding things out of seniority. If you're hired right into the ER that has a lot more to do with how much reserve sucked and the significant growth in international flying then being given something. We bid for things, we're awarded things, we're not given things. Therefore out of seniority is not excused to implement a bad idea. After all, how far back should we go in judging what's out of seniority?
But back to POS 29, you'll need to be super senior to have any QOL, right now you just needed to have some seniority. I can tell you it will be a major change for me. The PCS and SC counts or points should've been done long ago but glad we have it now, but this bucket system is a fail and I'm sorry ALPA negotiated it to be this way.
Are they really thinking the first bucket is going to be 80?? That's outrageous.
And fwiw there is no such thing as holding things out of seniority. If you're hired right into the ER that has a lot more to do with how much reserve sucked and the significant growth in international flying then being given something. We bid for things, we're awarded things, we're not given things. Therefore out of seniority is not excused to implement a bad idea. After all, how far back should we go in judging what's out of seniority?
But back to POS 29, you'll need to be super senior to have any QOL, right now you just needed to have some seniority. I can tell you it will be a major change for me. The PCS and SC counts or points should've been done long ago but glad we have it now, but this bucket system is a fail and I'm sorry ALPA negotiated it to be this way.
Are they really thinking the first bucket is going to be 80?? That's outrageous.
01-19-2012, 12:16 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by more bacon
we definitely need to fix the low guarantee.
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I'm senior reserve right now in top 3rd and think this new bucket system is horrible and will be significantly effected by it.
And fwiw there is no such thing as holding things out of seniority. If you're hired right into the ER that has a lot more to do with how much reserve sucked and the significant growth in international flying then being given something. We bid for things, we're awarded things, we're not given things. Therefore out of seniority is not excused to implement a bad idea. After all, how far back should we go in judging what's out of seniority?
But back to POS 29, you'll need to be super senior to have any QOL, right now you just needed to have some seniority. I can tell you it will be a major change for me. The PCS and SC counts or points should've been done long ago but glad we have it now, but this bucket system is a fail and I'm sorry ALPA negotiated it to be this way.
Are they really thinking the first bucket is going to be 80?? That's outrageous.
And fwiw there is no such thing as holding things out of seniority. If you're hired right into the ER that has a lot more to do with how much reserve sucked and the significant growth in international flying then being given something. We bid for things, we're awarded things, we're not given things. Therefore out of seniority is not excused to implement a bad idea. After all, how far back should we go in judging what's out of seniority?
But back to POS 29, you'll need to be super senior to have any QOL, right now you just needed to have some seniority. I can tell you it will be a major change for me. The PCS and SC counts or points should've been done long ago but glad we have it now, but this bucket system is a fail and I'm sorry ALPA negotiated it to be this way.
Are they really thinking the first bucket is going to be 80?? That's outrageous.
x2 .
01-19-2012, 12:39 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Captain
Posts: 823
Well for one, I think it is a huge win as it gets us closer to what we gave away in LOA 46 and for that matter C2k. In the 1999 SOT we went back to high yellow without any regard for DOA. Now we still have DOA and are limited by buckets, but at least there is some seniority.
What's next? Taking away seniority for White slips? Cause you know those senior guys get all the good trips.
Huge win ALPA and thanks for listening to our input.
What's next? Taking away seniority for White slips? Cause you know those senior guys get all the good trips.
Huge win ALPA and thanks for listening to our input.
01-19-2012, 12:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 849
Originally Posted by RonRicco
Well for one, I think it is a huge win as it gets us closer to what we gave away in LOA 46 and for that matter C2k. In the 1999 SOT we went back to high yellow without any regard for DOA. Now we still have DOA and are limited by buckets, but at least there is some seniority.
What's next? Taking away seniority for White slips? Cause you know those senior guys get all the good trips.
Huge win ALPA and thanks for listening to our input.
What's next? Taking away seniority for White slips? Cause you know those senior guys get all the good trips.
Huge win ALPA and thanks for listening to our input.
01-19-2012, 01:05 PM
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by FmrFreightDog
Agree in principle, but in my and FTBs category, most reserves never get near 80 raw in the slow months. I'm mid-level reserve, junior if I bid weekends off. I see myself working a 4 day every week while the more senior reserves don't fly all month. Seniority needs to be honored, but not at the expense of junior guys flying 69.5 hours while senior reserves sit on permanent vacation. Adjusting the buckets to 30-40 point increments for fat categories would work much better.
01-19-2012, 01:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
I'm amazed anyone is complaining about having RAW buckets that are too large. I assume this is because the complaining is done by pilots so junior they've never seen the old system.
The problem with the RAW system was that it abbrogated seniority, and prevented the flying from being assigned on a seniority basis. It's not just a question of whether one flies, but a question of how flying is distributed among those that have to fly.
The full Low AND High yellow system was so sweet that junior pilots couldn't always get reserve at all. This meant people could slip into lines sooner, and only a small portion of the guys would fly a lot, and those guys would quickly hit the limit, which was good for them (commuters would get done, and go home for the rest of the month), and good for GS opportunities for all.
The bottom line is that arguing for small RAW buckets is arguing for the company's objective, which is to have everyone come up at the same time, so noone benefits. You're saying it's not fair that anyone has a good deal, so we might as well all have... a RAW deal.
Please list me in the camp that says any RAW bucket, no matter how large, is always too small. We don't need no RAW buckets.
The problem with the RAW system was that it abbrogated seniority, and prevented the flying from being assigned on a seniority basis. It's not just a question of whether one flies, but a question of how flying is distributed among those that have to fly.
The full Low AND High yellow system was so sweet that junior pilots couldn't always get reserve at all. This meant people could slip into lines sooner, and only a small portion of the guys would fly a lot, and those guys would quickly hit the limit, which was good for them (commuters would get done, and go home for the rest of the month), and good for GS opportunities for all.
The bottom line is that arguing for small RAW buckets is arguing for the company's objective, which is to have everyone come up at the same time, so noone benefits. You're saying it's not fair that anyone has a good deal, so we might as well all have... a RAW deal.
Please list me in the camp that says any RAW bucket, no matter how large, is always too small. We don't need no RAW buckets.
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