Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-30-2012, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
We also once did LGA-DFW on the 727. Clearing the berms at the end the runway at LGA was always a issue on that flight. Then one day they cut out the berms. Smart move. You could see all the grooves in them from tailskid hits.
Heck, AA used to fly DC-10s...FULL between DFW-LGA!
01-30-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DFW Refugee
And we had a 757 from DFW to LGA 11-12 years ago. 727 from DFW-JFK-DFW. Any argument supporting rjs developing a market is simply mngmnt trying to see if it will stick...and to see if we'll buy it. Heck, AA used to fly DC-10s...FULL between DFW-LGA!
Heck, AA used to fly DC-10s...FULL between DFW-LGA!Market destruction is putting RJs on what used to be a full widebody route, or connecting MAJOR hubs with RJ only service then calling it feed. I dont care what anybody says, when I commute on a 50 seat RJ, it is uncomfortable... Poor mainline service beats great 50 seat service. Bigger than 50 seat should be a mainline aircraft.
01-30-2012, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by orvil
My point is it shouldn't have ever been an RJ in the first place. It should have always stayed mainline just like LGA-DFW. The loads used to be there when it was mainline. Now we have driven those away with RJ's.
I was extremely upset when the initial two rounds of routes came out and there were only 7 mainline routes listed. I guess I'm looking for the "silver" lining. Seems to be strangely lead colored however - that won't hurt me will it?
01-30-2012, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by scambo1
I gotta absolutely agree with you. Market development is something like CHS-BNA or ROC-ORF.
Market destruction is putting RJs on what used to be a full widebody route, or connecting MAJOR hubs with RJ only service then calling it feed. I dont care what anybody says, when I commute on a 50 seat RJ, it is uncomfortable... Poor mainline service beats great 50 seat service. Bigger than 50 seat should be a mainline aircraft.
Market destruction is putting RJs on what used to be a full widebody route, or connecting MAJOR hubs with RJ only service then calling it feed. I dont care what anybody says, when I commute on a 50 seat RJ, it is uncomfortable... Poor mainline service beats great 50 seat service. Bigger than 50 seat should be a mainline aircraft.
Of course, if you don't advertise, you can throw airplanes at a segment and when folks don't come cancel it and tell everyone how stupid they were. I guess network just hopes that word of mouth and the intraweb thingy will solve all of their problems.
01-30-2012, 07:57 AM
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Market development requires competitive equipment. We can't develop a market with inferior equipment and high costs. We are sitting ducks for Jet Blue and even Southwest Airlines.
Delta management intends to acquire market share and then constrain capacity until it is profitable.
Someone used the phrase "MBA death spiral." It is apt with the use of 50 seat RJ's to develop markets with too few seats to spread the fuel and trip costs amongst. The E175 is a mainline equivalent. Really, what we need is to fill the scope gap with mainline equipment operated by new hire mainline pilots at reasonable (market) costs.
Delta management intends to acquire market share and then constrain capacity until it is profitable.
Someone used the phrase "MBA death spiral." It is apt with the use of 50 seat RJ's to develop markets with too few seats to spread the fuel and trip costs amongst. The E175 is a mainline equivalent. Really, what we need is to fill the scope gap with mainline equipment operated by new hire mainline pilots at reasonable (market) costs.
01-30-2012, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DFW Refugee
And we had a 757 from DFW to LGA 11-12 years ago. 727 from DFW-JFK-DFW. Any argument supporting rjs developing a market is simply mngmnt trying to see if it will stick...and to see if we'll buy it. Heck, AA used to fly DC-10s...FULL between DFW-LGA!
Heck, AA used to fly DC-10s...FULL between DFW-LGA!
01-30-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DFW Refugee
And we had a 757 from DFW to LGA 11-12 years ago. 727 from DFW-JFK-DFW. Any argument supporting rjs developing a market is simply mngmnt trying to see if it will stick...and to see if we'll buy it. Heck, AA used to fly DC-10s...FULL between DFW-LGA!
Heck, AA used to fly DC-10s...FULL between DFW-LGA!
01-30-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by scambo1
I gotta absolutely agree with you. Market development is something like CHS-BNA or ROC-ORF.
Market destruction is putting RJs on what used to be a full widebody route, or connecting MAJOR hubs with RJ only service then calling it feed. I dont care what anybody says, when I commute on a 50 seat RJ, it is uncomfortable... Poor mainline service beats great 50 seat service. Bigger than 50 seat should be a mainline aircraft.
Market destruction is putting RJs on what used to be a full widebody route, or connecting MAJOR hubs with RJ only service then calling it feed. I dont care what anybody says, when I commute on a 50 seat RJ, it is uncomfortable... Poor mainline service beats great 50 seat service. Bigger than 50 seat should be a mainline aircraft.
01-30-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by iceman49
No trying to start an issue, but what was the cost of fuel than and what was the fuel burn on the 10?
Maybe some Diesel-10 drivers can chime in on the hourly burn, pax count for the domestic DC-10s and some guys familiar with the RJ can throw out the same numbers...
Cheers
George
01-30-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by scambo1
Market destruction is putting RJs on what used to be a full widebody route, or connecting MAJOR hubs with RJ only service then calling it feed. I dont care what anybody says, when I commute on a 50 seat RJ, it is uncomfortable... Poor mainline service beats great 50 seat service. Bigger than 50 seat should be a mainline aircraft.
I'm surprised in his slot swap defense, Dickson pointed out LGA MSY because the top market for LGA is Chicago by far. Here's how we have been "developing" that market recently:
In 2010, Delta ended Midway-LaGuardia service and replaced it with O’Hare flights. Prior to that the MDW-LGA flights replaced O’Hare-LaGuardia flights in 2007...
Chicago is a market more than 5 times the size of MSY (2800 vs 440 daily originating pax)
Delta has been serving it for years.
It was promoted as one of the crucial HVC heavy routes.
What equipment is flying that?
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 01-30-2012 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Gotta quote Scambo!
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