Yeah why the 25%? I about choked(NM found the answer on wikipedia)

Hear hear! We will be shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't fix this issue. For a huge company like ours with multiple airplane types, pay banding is the way to go. I laugh at our pilots when they compare SWA 737 rates with our 777/747s. 100% of SWA pilots make that pay. Only a small fraction of our pilot groups make 777/747 pay. Pay-band us together and lets negotiate our way to SWA + much more!! The only smaller thing we have from SWA 737s are the mad dogs. We'll be in a much better position to negotiate once we're pay-banded.

You're kidding, right?

Exactly... we should have quarterly AEs no matter what (similar to the NW system), not at the whim of planning on when they want to put them out.

I think we should have daily AE's, that way I can fly a 737 to St. Thomas on Tuesdays and a 777 to Dubai on the weekends...

Dual Pool Baby! Kind of like the old T37/38 ACE program for the AF heavy drivers.

Training costs? Hell, I'll be getting so many landings, I won't need to go back to a sim for 3 years!

Our maddogs seat more people than most/all SWA jets. Ranges and missions are similar. Some of our baby busses and 737-700s are SWA sized.

Earlier today my wife made the observation; "Hey, if we could just get that extra 4.85% every month, it would be like your OLD paychecks!" And I had to remeind her, Yeah but, I was a domestic 757 driver back then, not a 777 Capt...

I don't know about you guys, but getting such a small piece of our pie (4.85%) back, once a year, when we gave up 42%, plus our DB money, just ****es me off, more than makes me want to celebrate.

Kind of a painful reminder of exactly how much we gave away.

Sure it's better than getting zilch, no doubt, but still...it would be nice to have that little 'extra' every month.

I'm sure Ed won't be getting any sleep tonight though...:eek:

I don't want to go to a system as with small awards as frequent as the APE*, but I would like a system the company can't game quite so much, by either removing AE's, or cancelling MD's, or selectively backfilling some categories, but not others. I think the APE couldn't be played that way.

* I don't want to encourage seasonal bidding, and above all, I absolutely don't want to see Block/Reserve. But that's just me.

Heyas Clamp,

Actually, the NWA APA system had very little "churn" at the bottom of each category, despite the fact that there were monthly awards. This seems to be the principal worry that fDAL guys have about the APA system.

The excess at the bottom of each category was mitigated by the Temporary Position system, which was extremely popular with commuters, and so almost always went quite senior. Lots of people benefit when senior guys bid temp positions. The senior guys get free travel & hotels to work, the mid guys in the permanent category move up, and the bottom guys stay in their position.

People forget that displacements cost the company money no matter how it's done, all at once, or a trickle over some months. The Temp system mitigated that by letting people even out the slight surpluses between bases.

Some people like the AE process because they say it lets people hang on to the bottom of a category longer than they normally would. But it also traps those same people, for months on end, where they might be happier in another, more junior category or a different base.

The monthly awards process smoothed the bumps, made it very easy to see the ebb and flow, and there were very few surprises.

Of course, sharpshooting the system, knowing exactly when you were going to training, and when you'd be in your position were nice parts of the system, as well.


The block/reserve separate category thing is a different matter. That system mostly benefited commuters, in that if you got the boot off the bottom of one category, you could just displaced into another blockholder position, and not worry about commuting to reserve. Honestly, I think we can do without it, BUT, you could emulate the benefit by setting up some kind of ultra long call reserve system that takes some of the sting out.

Nu

Mine looks a little short also based on my 2011 W2. I'll have to check when I get home.