Year 1 is $111 for a Captain and goes up to a max of $121.

I'd fly it for a hell of a lot less if it meant getting that flying to mainline before the flying is handed over to 76 seaters. When the planes that need to be scoped are on our certificate then scope is one thing we don't have to fight to protect.

Not Myopic. If an E-195 can replace a DC-9, then pay it at DC-9 rates. Don't really give a Rats A** about someone not yet hired at DAL. Concerned that a DC-9 is parked and that pilot is paid 18-22% less to fly the same range, speed, payload airplane:mad:

And thats a valid argument reddog, completely valid. But people are rightly worried that the DC9s will be parked and replaced by DCI with the help of our MEC. We're not worried right now about DC9 pilots losing pay and pilots not getting hired, we're talking about pilots being furloughed and replaced by DCI.

Get the planes then work on the pay. We don't trust anyone right now to make sure that doesn't happen so we want to fight for the jets by going after Compass and so forth, anything that'll secure that flying.

Why do you think the flying would be handed to 76 seat jets? The E-195 is a 100 seat jet....pay it at DC-9 rates and I wouldn't have a problem flying it:cool:

I'm concerned that the DC-9 is parked (and they will be parked), and someone else is paid is paid 18-22% less to fly the same range, speed, payload airplane.

Have you found a way to be immune to displacements when the bottom of the airline goes away? Maybe you don't care about someone not hired at Delta, but keep in mind we're usually either hiring, or firing. So we're usually moving forward, or backwards. I'd rather an airline that's adding. At the very least, one that stays at the same size.

I get your point WRT rates: they should be the same. We didn't negotiate them that way, and we did it with a very specific goal in mind: we wanted the aircraft on property first.

That size plane is coming and the DC9 is Going! Give away the plane you give away the jobs and the potentail to get better rates for it. Don't think for 1 second that whether it be a c-series or 195, it will be there to replace not only dca but also Your airbus flying! Get the plane and then fight like he'll for better rates. Can't fight for better rates if they're at a regional and flown by non-delta pilots!

If we got the E-195 on the property it would be a major step towards turning this scope erosion around because the next logical step would be the E-170/5. That is if we had leadership that was focused on recapturing scope. :rolleyes:

I think an important rule in negotiating is that you make sure you "own" what you are negotiating for. What sense does it make to make a big fuss about the 195 rates now? Management could say, ok fine, we will pay the E-195 $200 per hour for the right seat, then never order the thing.

If we are serious, our goal should be to get as many DAL pilots flying as many airplanes to as many places (big and small) as possible. That way when contract negotiating time come up, we have more leverage. A possible strike would affect service from Moscow and Naritia all the way to Saginaw and Knoxville. More planes, more pilots, more service, more leverage.

New K Now

EXACTLY!!! I don't see how it's a hard concept to grasp, once it's gone and off property then there is a -0- % chance of bringing those rates higher for delta pilots. The rates are lower right now because we don't have the plane on property yet, but let's be realistic all of our rates are lower than they should be but that doesn't mean we should outsource those jobs either!!

I see a 767 replaced by a 757, a 757 replaced by an 88 and an 88, if I remember right, can be replaced by 2 76-seaters for less in both total cost and CASM. The hinderance is scope and so the company will go after scope, thats their job and some of us fear our union will not protect scope and cost us our jobs.

Get the 100 seater and the DC9s and 88s can be replaced by them. Then get the pay rates in 2012. Even if you don't, their good enough pay rates in comparison to not having a 100 seater on property.

Friend...who's talking about outsorcing 100 seat jet flying? I'm saying if you want to replace the DC-9 with E-195 then pay DC-9 rates. Hell I won't be flying that E-195, but you will. Do you realy want to fly that for a 20% discount? If you do, ya need a drug test...........