Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-17-2012 | 01:35 PM
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Not True! Call your Union Rep
All the would have to do is remove a few seats in the "large rj". Think they won't? How many years did NWA and Delta fly around 40 and 44 seat jets. Not to mention the 69 seat Avro's!
(And please tell me if I'm wrong--The union rep might not even understand this)
03-17-2012 | 01:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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03-17-2012 | 01:51 PM
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From: DAL 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
Wee bit o' a rant...
Hired end of '88. Told on day one we'd all be Capt's in less than 5yrs. Thought, we'll see...
Flew with guys who spent years on the panel or smashed bags (vice furlough)... got my window seat in less than a year... spent next 9yrs in right seat of 727... felt very lucky.
Finally could upgrade after 13yrs (waited 'til 16yrs... 777 FO was awesome)... again, felt very lucky.
Don't really understand the beyotching about bids/ae's/res, etc., (especially from guys hired w/in the last four years). Seems like some people haven't really payed attention to what's been going on the past 20yrs, in this seniority based biz.
P.s., As I told my 2010 hire friend when he asked for advice on bidding an ae..."if your a relatively new hire and you don't want to go to training a lot, bid to be the most senior pilot on the most junior equipment you can hold. If you want to go to training a lot, do the opposite."
Last thought... unless Delta/DALPA decide they want to recapture their Scope/flying/brand identity, we are all pretty much finished.
Happy St. Paddy's Day
Boy you guys just don't get it - you are both right!
Every hiring cycle has relative winners and losers - hired at the beginning of a cycle - Luck O' the Irish. Hired at the end of cycle - Free system tour for 5 years.
It happened in 1991, 2001, and I guess 2010. Both the 1991 and 2001 guys got the bonus of Furloughs, and the 1991 guys a "B" scale to boot, so the recent hires are not exactly breaking new ground with multiple displacements. The 1991 hires had Western and Repulic mergers to deal with, the 2001 hires had 911, and the recent new hires have the DAL/NW merger.
As to Livin the Dream's point about beyothching, he is absolutely correct - guys are beyothching quite a bit - the only thing is that guys have always beyothched this much - its just that now we have the inter-web which acts as a loudspeaker/amplifier etc.
Thats my 1 Guinness down - ??? to go, St Patty's day peacemaking post!
Scoop
Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
Wee bit o' a rant...
Hired end of '88. Told on day one we'd all be Capt's in less than 5yrs. Thought, we'll see...
Flew with guys who spent years on the panel or smashed bags (vice furlough)... got my window seat in less than a year... spent next 9yrs in right seat of 727... felt very lucky.
Finally could upgrade after 13yrs (waited 'til 16yrs... 777 FO was awesome)... again, felt very lucky.
Don't really understand the beyotching about bids/ae's/res, etc., (especially from guys hired w/in the last four years). Seems like some people haven't really payed attention to what's been going on the past 20yrs, in this seniority based biz.
P.s., As I told my 2010 hire friend when he asked for advice on bidding an ae..."if your a relatively new hire and you don't want to go to training a lot, bid to be the most senior pilot on the most junior equipment you can hold. If you want to go to training a lot, do the opposite."
Last thought... unless Delta/DALPA decide they want to recapture their Scope/flying/brand identity, we are all pretty much finished.
Happy St. Paddy's Day
Originally Posted by [B
forgot to bid[/B];1153404]
wee bit o'tort,
4 years is really 5 now as of last month. I guess we should term those hired in the last 5 years as "new hires"?
It's interesting you mention 1 year from panel to window seat in 88. Looking at the PMDL 1990 fleet, about 45% of the planes required an FE. I'd estimate that probably 20% of the pilots were FE's at the time? If thats right, then imagine this- if we still had 20% of the 12,022 pilot group as FEs that'd be 2,400 pilots. That'd mean 12-14 years of sideway action on our seniority list. In the 80s when the guys were stuck as FEs, was it for 12-14 years?
Also, this reminds me of the "NEW HIRES IN THE ER!? DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK ME TO GET IN THAT SEAT!?!" Stuff. Look at the 2010 fleet versus the 1990 fleet. There's a reason it took so long. Not to mention but I believe CAL was hiring in the 756 and FedEx hires directly into the MD11 now. I know because I talked to an 17 year MD11 LCA who had two new hires coming up for OE. It's not uncommon in this industry now.
Of course the one thing i can't help but notice is the 200 "hundred" seaters that existed at DAL and NWA in 1990. Where'd they go? I should look at pilots and say "hired directly into the ER? Do I know how lucky I am? Do you know how lucky you were to have scope?"
Anyways, forgot my point.
I guess 5 years means you shouldn't complain even if you're complaining about outsource induced shrinkage and stagnation? Outsourcing that if it didn't exist would make age 65 nearly unnoticeable to everyone but the top tier pilots? Honestly, I don't hear "new hires" out on the line complain about being here. I'm in the mix with them, from what I see we're all glad to be here and have a seniority number. You should have seen the airlines we came from!
Anyways, the one thing I've noticed:
-FA's years ago loved that when a senior FA got old, fat, pregnant or married they were let go. Until they got old, fat, pregnant or married.
-Pilots loved age 60 until they turned 60. 'I'm not ready to hang it up..." but you were ready for everyone else to hang it up? Funny how that works.
-Everybody wants to be young again while everyone wants seniority.
If the bible talks about selfishness, it's not a new invention.
wee bit o'tort,
4 years is really 5 now as of last month. I guess we should term those hired in the last 5 years as "new hires"?
It's interesting you mention 1 year from panel to window seat in 88. Looking at the PMDL 1990 fleet, about 45% of the planes required an FE. I'd estimate that probably 20% of the pilots were FE's at the time? If thats right, then imagine this- if we still had 20% of the 12,022 pilot group as FEs that'd be 2,400 pilots. That'd mean 12-14 years of sideway action on our seniority list. In the 80s when the guys were stuck as FEs, was it for 12-14 years?
Also, this reminds me of the "NEW HIRES IN THE ER!? DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK ME TO GET IN THAT SEAT!?!" Stuff. Look at the 2010 fleet versus the 1990 fleet. There's a reason it took so long. Not to mention but I believe CAL was hiring in the 756 and FedEx hires directly into the MD11 now. I know because I talked to an 17 year MD11 LCA who had two new hires coming up for OE. It's not uncommon in this industry now.
Of course the one thing i can't help but notice is the 200 "hundred" seaters that existed at DAL and NWA in 1990. Where'd they go? I should look at pilots and say "hired directly into the ER? Do I know how lucky I am? Do you know how lucky you were to have scope?"
Anyways, forgot my point.
I guess 5 years means you shouldn't complain even if you're complaining about outsource induced shrinkage and stagnation? Outsourcing that if it didn't exist would make age 65 nearly unnoticeable to everyone but the top tier pilots? Honestly, I don't hear "new hires" out on the line complain about being here. I'm in the mix with them, from what I see we're all glad to be here and have a seniority number. You should have seen the airlines we came from!
Anyways, the one thing I've noticed:
-FA's years ago loved that when a senior FA got old, fat, pregnant or married they were let go. Until they got old, fat, pregnant or married.
-Pilots loved age 60 until they turned 60. 'I'm not ready to hang it up..." but you were ready for everyone else to hang it up? Funny how that works.
-Everybody wants to be young again while everyone wants seniority.
If the bible talks about selfishness, it's not a new invention.
Boy you guys just don't get it - you are both right!
Every hiring cycle has relative winners and losers - hired at the beginning of a cycle - Luck O' the Irish. Hired at the end of cycle - Free system tour for 5 years.
It happened in 1991, 2001, and I guess 2010. Both the 1991 and 2001 guys got the bonus of Furloughs, and the 1991 guys a "B" scale to boot, so the recent hires are not exactly breaking new ground with multiple displacements. The 1991 hires had Western and Repulic mergers to deal with, the 2001 hires had 911, and the recent new hires have the DAL/NW merger.
As to Livin the Dream's point about beyothching, he is absolutely correct - guys are beyothching quite a bit - the only thing is that guys have always beyothched this much - its just that now we have the inter-web which acts as a loudspeaker/amplifier etc.
Thats my 1 Guinness down - ??? to go, St Patty's day peacemaking post!
Scoop
03-17-2012 | 02:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
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From: B757/767
Not True! Call your Union Rep
All they would have to do is remove a few seats in the "large rj". Think they won't? How many years did NWA and Delta fly around 40 and 44 seat jets. Not to mention the 69 seat Avro's!
(And please tell me if I'm wrong--The union rep might not even understand this)
All they would have to do is remove a few seats in the "large rj". Think they won't? How many years did NWA and Delta fly around 40 and 44 seat jets. Not to mention the 69 seat Avro's!
(And please tell me if I'm wrong--The union rep might not even understand this)
40. “Permitted aircraft type” means:
A. a propeller-driven aircraft configured with 70 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 70,000 or fewer pounds, and
b. a jet aircraft certificated for operation in the United States for 50 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 65,000 or fewer pounds, and
c. one of up to 255 jet aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“70-seat jets”), and
d. one of up to 120 jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”). The number of 76-seat jets may be increased above 120 by three 76-seat jets for each aircraft above the number of aircraft in the baseline fleet operated by the Company (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational 38 spares) as of October 30, 2008. The baseline fleet number will be 440+N, in which N is the number of aircraft (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares but not including permitted aircraft types) added to the Company’s baseline fleet from NWA. The number and type of all aircraft in the Company’s fleet on October 30, 2008 will be provided to the Association. The number of 70-seat jets plus 76-seat jets permitted by Section 1 B. may not exceed 255.
Last edited by johnso29; 03-17-2012 at 03:03 PM.
03-17-2012 | 02:43 PM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2010
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No, there's only one. Had to suffer through him on a non rev flight once out of Philly. All of us learned about how many night traps he got and how well he flew the Hornet. There was so much testosterone flowing from his pure studliness, that all the female passengers spontaneously grew facial hair.
Carl
Carl
03-17-2012 | 02:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
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From: retired 767(dl)
In the olden Jodox days, it was not unusual , in your probationary year to fly 3 different machines. [CV-880,DC-6/7 and CV-440] Talk about utilization..... Delta done come a long way.... All them ground schools just adds to your book collection.
03-17-2012 | 02:52 PM
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From: 765-A
03-17-2012 | 02:55 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 829
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From: metal tube operator
Sounds like a wet dream to most of us bottom pukes. The 2500-3000 numbers only remind of how many people mgmt wants to reduce our pilot rank if they could, as long as we don't fly too tired and crash or can't run a full schedule.
03-17-2012 | 03:15 PM
Happy to be here
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From: A-320A
A divided group fails.
03-17-2012 | 03:18 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: A-320A
A few years ago I got reinstated the month before my training was scheduled to start. They made me go anyway, OE, fly the airplane less than one full month, then go back and retrain for my reinstatement.
Don't know if it's still the same, but it was up to the planners where they needed me most, even for just one month, no matter how stupid it seemed.
Don't know if it's still the same, but it was up to the planners where they needed me most, even for just one month, no matter how stupid it seemed.
I got training canceled two days prior a few years ago.
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