Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-29-2012, 05:18 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 93
Carl, how about this from the older valid 2009 Form 41 data:
Going back to 2009 and adding the yearly pay raises since then.
Form 41 average 2009 Wages and Salaries
Delta $132,374
SWA $176725
We know that SWA received a 2010 pay raise of between 1% and 3% based on operating margin (I used 2% in the calcuations), and a guaranteed raise in 2011 of 2%, and nothing in 2012 as their contract is amendable shortly.
Delta pilots received the following changes in the same time period: 4%, 4%, and 4%
That brings the wages and salaries numbers to:
Delta $148,902
SWA $183,865
So using the valid 2009 Form 41 data, the average SWA pilot is currently 23.5% ahead of an average Delta pilot.
If I contribute 2% of my pay to my 401k, Delta matches 2% and also adds another 12%.
If an SWA pilot contributes 2% of his pay, SWA matches 2%, but adds nothing else.
Combining those two major components of our compensation, it would appear the average SWA pilot is about 11.5% ahead of the average Delta pilot (23.5% - 12%). I guess that is close to where Roger value comes from.
But the question remains, is the median Delta First Officer on the 737? Is the median Delta Captain on the 737?
Going back to 2009 and adding the yearly pay raises since then.
Form 41 average 2009 Wages and Salaries
Delta $132,374
SWA $176725
We know that SWA received a 2010 pay raise of between 1% and 3% based on operating margin (I used 2% in the calcuations), and a guaranteed raise in 2011 of 2%, and nothing in 2012 as their contract is amendable shortly.
Delta pilots received the following changes in the same time period: 4%, 4%, and 4%
That brings the wages and salaries numbers to:
Delta $148,902
SWA $183,865
So using the valid 2009 Form 41 data, the average SWA pilot is currently 23.5% ahead of an average Delta pilot.
If I contribute 2% of my pay to my 401k, Delta matches 2% and also adds another 12%.
If an SWA pilot contributes 2% of his pay, SWA matches 2%, but adds nothing else.
Combining those two major components of our compensation, it would appear the average SWA pilot is about 11.5% ahead of the average Delta pilot (23.5% - 12%). I guess that is close to where Roger value comes from.
But the question remains, is the median Delta First Officer on the 737? Is the median Delta Captain on the 737?
03-29-2012, 05:20 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
03-29-2012, 05:22 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by FmrFreightDog
Awesome.. Another 4 days of riding out of ATL and flying back in (over and over and over again). 88 Captains, I know you can (and should) split up the flying any way you want, but going by twos seems to work pretty well...
(I know.. The majority of guys do this already, but for some reason I haven't shot an approach to anything besides 26R or 27L in a month. Tempted to check in requesting 28 just for something new...)
(I know.. The majority of guys do this already, but for some reason I haven't shot an approach to anything besides 26R or 27L in a month. Tempted to check in requesting 28 just for something new...)
If you do a lot of approaches to the same runway, you can shorten your briefing to "do you have any questions?"
03-29-2012, 05:23 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Where can thou go to see how many slots we had on the 737 line?
And is the 737-700 and 737-800/900 a different line? George? Where are you?
Spike Lee didn't tweet your home address did he?
And is the 737-700 and 737-800/900 a different line? George? Where are you?
Spike Lee didn't tweet your home address did he?
03-29-2012, 05:25 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by gloopy
I wouldn't call my friend that won a Field's Medal in Ubermath to mentor him just yet. Its not exactly hard to find CEO's that have doubled a company's share price from 2008-2012. Pretty much any of them that have a pulse have those bragging rights.
Not to talk out of school, but I heard there was a little dalliance on the red velvet tour that kept him from the CEO job. Or red rope, whatever it was.
03-29-2012, 05:30 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I can't remember if it was LuvJockey or not, but an SWA pilot posted a link to the article where the mistake was outlined and admitted to. It stated that the 2011 data would have correct total SWA pilot numbers. The 2010 data did not.
Carl
Carl
Originally Posted by LuvJockey
Sorry to butt into the Delta thread, but I'll make it quick. The $166,000 average salary that keeps getting quoted here is incorrect. The MIT website has made a gross error in their calculations. If you look at 2009, it says that average SWA pilot pay was $176,000 and dropped to $166,000 in 2010. That is simply not correct.
There seems to be an error in the total number of pilots at SWA. Their charts show a sudden jump of 5.2 crews per aircraft to 5.9 from 2009 to 2010. That number is not correct. MIT shows that SWA hired around 800 pilots in 2010, making their calculations wildly inaccurate. Actual number of pilots hired in 2010 was zero.
If you compare the total cockpit cost per block hour for narrowbody equipment, SWA cockpit cost per hour rose from $630 to $691. SWA's scheduling practices and contract did not change appreciably in 2010 other than a pay rate increase. To compare, Delta currently shows $552 total cost per hour for 2010.
Anyway, the $166,000 average salary figure is not correct. If you use the correct number of pilots, the average SWA salary is actually well above $186,000 per year. My past history of Delta bashing aside, that is the real info.
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0EQUIPMENT.htm
There seems to be an error in the total number of pilots at SWA. Their charts show a sudden jump of 5.2 crews per aircraft to 5.9 from 2009 to 2010. That number is not correct. MIT shows that SWA hired around 800 pilots in 2010, making their calculations wildly inaccurate. Actual number of pilots hired in 2010 was zero.
If you compare the total cockpit cost per block hour for narrowbody equipment, SWA cockpit cost per hour rose from $630 to $691. SWA's scheduling practices and contract did not change appreciably in 2010 other than a pay rate increase. To compare, Delta currently shows $552 total cost per hour for 2010.
Anyway, the $166,000 average salary figure is not correct. If you use the correct number of pilots, the average SWA salary is actually well above $186,000 per year. My past history of Delta bashing aside, that is the real info.
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0EQUIPMENT.htm
03-29-2012, 05:50 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by sinca3
If the next guy looks to be doing the same thing then speak up and ask for a leg or legs other than ATL. I have been lucky and 90% of the guys I fly with fly the first leg then we go two's from there. If the guy is a big enough douche to say no after your request, then I'd call in sick and be done with it!
If they are an issue, call Pro Stans, I would not be advocating sicking out unless you are sick, especially now.
03-29-2012, 05:54 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 845
Originally Posted by scambo1
A SID to an ILS. You want something more? As the pavement approaches, gently raise the nose.
If you do a lot of approaches to the same runway, you can shorten your briefing to "do you have any questions?"
If you do a lot of approaches to the same runway, you can shorten your briefing to "do you have any questions?"
03-29-2012, 05:58 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by FmrFreightDog
True, but I like to complain, so....
03-29-2012, 06:02 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by padre2992
Carl, how about this from the older valid 2009 Form 41 data:
Going back to 2009 and adding the yearly pay raises since then.
Form 41 average 2009 Wages and Salaries
Delta $132,374
SWA $176725
We know that SWA received a 2010 pay raise of between 1% and 3% based on operating margin (I used 2% in the calcuations), and a guaranteed raise in 2011 of 2%, and nothing in 2012 as their contract is amendable shortly.
Delta pilots received the following changes in the same time period: 4%, 4%, and 4%
That brings the wages and salaries numbers to:
Delta $148,902
SWA $183,865
So using the valid 2009 Form 41 data, the average SWA pilot is currently 23.5% ahead of an average Delta pilot.
If I contribute 2% of my pay to my 401k, Delta matches 2% and also adds another 12%.
If an SWA pilot contributes 2% of his pay, SWA matches 2%, but adds nothing else.
Combining those two major components of our compensation, it would appear the average SWA pilot is about 11.5% ahead of the average Delta pilot (23.5% - 12%). I guess that is close to where Roger value comes from.
But the question remains, is the median Delta First Officer on the 737? Is the median Delta Captain on the 737?
Going back to 2009 and adding the yearly pay raises since then.
Form 41 average 2009 Wages and Salaries
Delta $132,374
SWA $176725
We know that SWA received a 2010 pay raise of between 1% and 3% based on operating margin (I used 2% in the calcuations), and a guaranteed raise in 2011 of 2%, and nothing in 2012 as their contract is amendable shortly.
Delta pilots received the following changes in the same time period: 4%, 4%, and 4%
That brings the wages and salaries numbers to:
Delta $148,902
SWA $183,865
So using the valid 2009 Form 41 data, the average SWA pilot is currently 23.5% ahead of an average Delta pilot.
If I contribute 2% of my pay to my 401k, Delta matches 2% and also adds another 12%.
If an SWA pilot contributes 2% of his pay, SWA matches 2%, but adds nothing else.
Combining those two major components of our compensation, it would appear the average SWA pilot is about 11.5% ahead of the average Delta pilot (23.5% - 12%). I guess that is close to where Roger value comes from.
But the question remains, is the median Delta First Officer on the 737? Is the median Delta Captain on the 737?
The numbers posted on most sites are total pilot costs. That means that while the average pilot might only need 11 percent with the difference in the average fleet sizes it would take a larger raise to reach parity with SWA. There are a lot of ways to look at the data.
There is a lot going on at the moment. It looks like we might well have a contract to vote on in the near term. I suspect however its not going to be what most pilots like. The question however becomes what strategy puts the most money in your pocket. We take a 3 or 4 year contract now or enter the traditional section 6 process and take 4 or 5 years to produce a contract. Each pilot will have to decide for himself which option is better for his family.
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