Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-13-2012 | 07:35 AM
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Question for Sailingfun:
Sailing you and were both at Delta pre-bankruptcy and during the days of the defined benefit retirement plan....
When you were a First Officer and flew a trip with a senior Captain and the subject of "what you made last year" came up, did you or he add in Delta's contribution to your DB retirement plan, or even Delta's match to the Family Care Savings Plan?
No one I flew with did (nor did I).
In that same vein, suppose a Delta pilot has a newborn that has massive health care needs to the tune of $250K. Do you add the 250K to his W-2 and subtract his health care premiums?
Last year I was surprisingly healthy and my health care premiums were a heck of a lot more than what was paid out. Do I get to deduct that "loss" from my Delta income?
I'm curious as to how your accounting methodology handles these situations?
When you were a First Officer and flew a trip with a senior Captain and the subject of "what you made last year" came up, did you or he add in Delta's contribution to your DB retirement plan, or even Delta's match to the Family Care Savings Plan?
No one I flew with did (nor did I).
In that same vein, suppose a Delta pilot has a newborn that has massive health care needs to the tune of $250K. Do you add the 250K to his W-2 and subtract his health care premiums?
Last year I was surprisingly healthy and my health care premiums were a heck of a lot more than what was paid out. Do I get to deduct that "loss" from my Delta income?
I'm curious as to how your accounting methodology handles these situations?
05-13-2012 | 07:44 AM
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From: Dismayed
Lots of junior guys here understandably don't have enough knowledge of the contract to understand the issues on reserve. There are three issues that all interact to determine reserve staffing, they are:
1. When a reserve is full
2. Max reserve
3. Staffing formula
Look at the last issue first. The staffing formula is based on reserves flying an average of 60 hours per month. It is a self correcting formula. If you have 1000 reserves and somehow they average 90 hours a month (90,000 hours) then you will soon have 1500 reserves (90,000/60). There is no way to have reserves consistently fly above a 60 hour average, without having the staffing formula rise to correct for it. It is not optional. The formula is a rolling 12 month average so there can be variations in special situations, but the staffing formula will always drive the average back down to 60.
Now look at when a reserve is full. Currently a reserve is full at the reserve guarantee. That means that once a pilot flies 70.01, he can't be given another trip. Under the current contract, if a pilot takes military leave (or some other absence like vacation) for half the month HIS guarantee is 35 hours. However, he still isn't full until he hits 70 hours. Under the agreement reached, that pilot will now be full at HIS guarantee or 35 hours. That will REDUCE the availability of that reserve pilot, that is a gain.
Max reserve. If a reserve isn't full, then how much can a reserve be flown. Currently the max is ALV. The proposed change is ALV + 15. If a reserve should average 60 hours a month, then how does this have any effect? It has an effect when a guy is about half full and is one of the only guys available when a longer trip comes up. This change will nominally reduce green slips, but will only effect staffing to the extent that the 60 hour average is easier to reach. The idea that reserves will consistently be flying 85 hours a month is impossible, the staffing formula will never allow that to occur. Because reserve guarantee is going up by 8%, this change reduces some of the additional cost of the extra guarantee.
It is not anyone's fault that they may not fully understand the interaction of these three items. The notepad was an attempt to give an update on the items discussed so far, but there was no time to do a complete analysis to discuss these issues. The misconceptions on this issue are large and will be addressed if there is a tentative agreement.
Now could someone at least talk about sick leave which is the best program I have ever had in my close to 25 years at Delta. If you come off disability, you can borrow sick time from next year so if you have a cold you are not left without pay. If you are sick on the first day or two of a long rotation, you can WITHOUT RISK, try to pick up time to avoid having your sick bank debited. There is not another sick program in the industry that is even close to this. This program recognizes the real world problems pilots face all the time with sick leave and it addresses them all.
1. When a reserve is full
2. Max reserve
3. Staffing formula
Look at the last issue first. The staffing formula is based on reserves flying an average of 60 hours per month. It is a self correcting formula. If you have 1000 reserves and somehow they average 90 hours a month (90,000 hours) then you will soon have 1500 reserves (90,000/60). There is no way to have reserves consistently fly above a 60 hour average, without having the staffing formula rise to correct for it. It is not optional. The formula is a rolling 12 month average so there can be variations in special situations, but the staffing formula will always drive the average back down to 60.
Now look at when a reserve is full. Currently a reserve is full at the reserve guarantee. That means that once a pilot flies 70.01, he can't be given another trip. Under the current contract, if a pilot takes military leave (or some other absence like vacation) for half the month HIS guarantee is 35 hours. However, he still isn't full until he hits 70 hours. Under the agreement reached, that pilot will now be full at HIS guarantee or 35 hours. That will REDUCE the availability of that reserve pilot, that is a gain.
Max reserve. If a reserve isn't full, then how much can a reserve be flown. Currently the max is ALV. The proposed change is ALV + 15. If a reserve should average 60 hours a month, then how does this have any effect? It has an effect when a guy is about half full and is one of the only guys available when a longer trip comes up. This change will nominally reduce green slips, but will only effect staffing to the extent that the 60 hour average is easier to reach. The idea that reserves will consistently be flying 85 hours a month is impossible, the staffing formula will never allow that to occur. Because reserve guarantee is going up by 8%, this change reduces some of the additional cost of the extra guarantee.
It is not anyone's fault that they may not fully understand the interaction of these three items. The notepad was an attempt to give an update on the items discussed so far, but there was no time to do a complete analysis to discuss these issues. The misconceptions on this issue are large and will be addressed if there is a tentative agreement.
Now could someone at least talk about sick leave which is the best program I have ever had in my close to 25 years at Delta. If you come off disability, you can borrow sick time from next year so if you have a cold you are not left without pay. If you are sick on the first day or two of a long rotation, you can WITHOUT RISK, try to pick up time to avoid having your sick bank debited. There is not another sick program in the industry that is even close to this. This program recognizes the real world problems pilots face all the time with sick leave and it addresses them all.
Your post is interesting, and frankly I had to read it a couple of times to get past the snarky, condescending tone to get to the meat. Yes I'm junior, yes I've been on reserve, but don't sit there and tell me I'm too stupid to read.
You represent DALPA and frankly, the worst parts of it. You want us to sit back and color while the "adults" make the decisions with the information that is too "privileged" for the masses to see. You ask us to trust you when there is no trust left in the bank.
For the most part, I've been staying off the forums to wait for the contract. I'm cautiously excited, but the NNP put a lot of angst back in my world.
You have had some great posts in the past, but drop the whole trust me thing and stop talking down to us. What I saw in the NNP is concessionary in nature so far, but I'm sure it's because I'm "too stupid" to see the awesomeness it contains.
I'm hoping/praying that there is more to see. They (the NC) have done some good work outside section 6, so I am hoping for a linear result.
05-13-2012 | 08:05 AM
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From: maddoggy dog
05-13-2012 | 08:21 AM
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From: 767er Captain
3 Speculative Picks from the Airline Industry
by Renee O'Farrell
The opportunity in the airline industry is a hard thing to pass up. The airline industry is fairly small, at least in terms of players. It is really closer to an oligarchy-- there are a handful of major players and barriers to entry are high. It is almost like investing in the personal computing industry. Sure, there are some companies, like Acer, that have some measure of flooding in the industry. But, for the most part, when someone goes to buy a computer, he or she is going to be looking at an Apple (AAPL), a DELL (DELL) or HP (HPQ). The same is true with airlines. When you go to book a flight, odds are you're going to be looking at either Delta (DAL), United Continental (UAL) or US Airways (LCC).
Moreover, people love to travel, and for many, the economy means that they couldn't afford to. As things rebound financially, more will be booking that flight that got put off -- and airline share prices reflect this. Looking solely at the three major airlines in the United States, each company on this list represents a good investment opportunity. They have returned over 24% year to date and are priced at less than 5 times their forward earnings. They also have strong expected earnings growth.
Delta is the largest of the companies on this list, with a market cap of $9.20 billion. The stock is currently trading at less than $11 a share, meaning that it is priced at only 4.25 times forward earnings. To date, the stock has returned almost 35%. If analysts are correct and the company is able to increase its earnings by an average of 17.25% a year over the next 5 years, there is still room for this stock to run. I highly recommend the stock as a buy.
3 Speculative Picks From The Airline Industry - Seeking Alpha
by Renee O'Farrell
The opportunity in the airline industry is a hard thing to pass up. The airline industry is fairly small, at least in terms of players. It is really closer to an oligarchy-- there are a handful of major players and barriers to entry are high. It is almost like investing in the personal computing industry. Sure, there are some companies, like Acer, that have some measure of flooding in the industry. But, for the most part, when someone goes to buy a computer, he or she is going to be looking at an Apple (AAPL), a DELL (DELL) or HP (HPQ). The same is true with airlines. When you go to book a flight, odds are you're going to be looking at either Delta (DAL), United Continental (UAL) or US Airways (LCC).
Moreover, people love to travel, and for many, the economy means that they couldn't afford to. As things rebound financially, more will be booking that flight that got put off -- and airline share prices reflect this. Looking solely at the three major airlines in the United States, each company on this list represents a good investment opportunity. They have returned over 24% year to date and are priced at less than 5 times their forward earnings. They also have strong expected earnings growth.
Delta is the largest of the companies on this list, with a market cap of $9.20 billion. The stock is currently trading at less than $11 a share, meaning that it is priced at only 4.25 times forward earnings. To date, the stock has returned almost 35%. If analysts are correct and the company is able to increase its earnings by an average of 17.25% a year over the next 5 years, there is still room for this stock to run. I highly recommend the stock as a buy.
3 Speculative Picks From The Airline Industry - Seeking Alpha
05-13-2012 | 08:22 AM
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From: 767er Captain
Only an idiot would buy AMR. When they exit BK, the stock that is now out there will be worthless, and new stock will be issued.. just like DAL.. just like CAL was back in the day... etc etc... Buying a BK stock is a trade, but the waters are deep and dangerous. Since AMR is only worth a few pennies, you would have to invest a TON of money to make it worthwhile.. and what happens if the stock is zeroed out while you are in.. or drops a few cents... there is little upside for the retail investor
05-13-2012 | 08:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 767er Captain
Lots of junior guys here understandably don't have enough knowledge of the contract to understand the issues on reserve. There are three issues that all interact to determine reserve staffing, they are:
1. When a reserve is full
2. Max reserve
3. Staffing formula
Look at the last issue first. The staffing formula is based on reserves flying an average of 60 hours per month. It is a self correcting formula. If you have 1000 reserves and somehow they average 90 hours a month (90,000 hours) then you will soon have 1500 reserves (90,000/60). There is no way to have reserves consistently fly above a 60 hour average, without having the staffing formula rise to correct for it. It is not optional. The formula is a rolling 12 month average so there can be variations in special situations, but the staffing formula will always drive the average back down to 60.
Now look at when a reserve is full. Currently a reserve is full at the reserve guarantee. That means that once a pilot flies 70.01, he can't be given another trip. Under the current contract, if a pilot takes military leave (or some other absence like vacation) for half the month HIS guarantee is 35 hours. However, he still isn't full until he hits 70 hours. Under the agreement reached, that pilot will now be full at HIS guarantee or 35 hours. That will REDUCE the availability of that reserve pilot, that is a gain.
Max reserve. If a reserve isn't full, then how much can a reserve be flown. Currently the max is ALV. The proposed change is ALV + 15. If a reserve should average 60 hours a month, then how does this have any effect? It has an effect when a guy is about half full and is one of the only guys available when a longer trip comes up. This change will nominally reduce green slips, but will only effect staffing to the extent that the 60 hour average is easier to reach. The idea that reserves will consistently be flying 85 hours a month is impossible, the staffing formula will never allow that to occur. Because reserve guarantee is going up by 8%, this change reduces some of the additional cost of the extra guarantee.
It is not anyone's fault that they may not fully understand the interaction of these three items. The notepad was an attempt to give an update on the items discussed so far, but there was no time to do a complete analysis to discuss these issues. The misconceptions on this issue are large and will be addressed if there is a tentative agreement.
Now could someone at least talk about sick leave which is the best program I have ever had in my close to 25 years at Delta. If you come off disability, you can borrow sick time from next year so if you have a cold you are not left without pay. If you are sick on the first day or two of a long rotation, you can WITHOUT RISK, try to pick up time to avoid having your sick bank debited. There is not another sick program in the industry that is even close to this. This program recognizes the real world problems pilots face all the time with sick leave and it addresses them all.
1. When a reserve is full
2. Max reserve
3. Staffing formula
Look at the last issue first. The staffing formula is based on reserves flying an average of 60 hours per month. It is a self correcting formula. If you have 1000 reserves and somehow they average 90 hours a month (90,000 hours) then you will soon have 1500 reserves (90,000/60). There is no way to have reserves consistently fly above a 60 hour average, without having the staffing formula rise to correct for it. It is not optional. The formula is a rolling 12 month average so there can be variations in special situations, but the staffing formula will always drive the average back down to 60.
Now look at when a reserve is full. Currently a reserve is full at the reserve guarantee. That means that once a pilot flies 70.01, he can't be given another trip. Under the current contract, if a pilot takes military leave (or some other absence like vacation) for half the month HIS guarantee is 35 hours. However, he still isn't full until he hits 70 hours. Under the agreement reached, that pilot will now be full at HIS guarantee or 35 hours. That will REDUCE the availability of that reserve pilot, that is a gain.
Max reserve. If a reserve isn't full, then how much can a reserve be flown. Currently the max is ALV. The proposed change is ALV + 15. If a reserve should average 60 hours a month, then how does this have any effect? It has an effect when a guy is about half full and is one of the only guys available when a longer trip comes up. This change will nominally reduce green slips, but will only effect staffing to the extent that the 60 hour average is easier to reach. The idea that reserves will consistently be flying 85 hours a month is impossible, the staffing formula will never allow that to occur. Because reserve guarantee is going up by 8%, this change reduces some of the additional cost of the extra guarantee.
It is not anyone's fault that they may not fully understand the interaction of these three items. The notepad was an attempt to give an update on the items discussed so far, but there was no time to do a complete analysis to discuss these issues. The misconceptions on this issue are large and will be addressed if there is a tentative agreement.
Now could someone at least talk about sick leave which is the best program I have ever had in my close to 25 years at Delta. If you come off disability, you can borrow sick time from next year so if you have a cold you are not left without pay. If you are sick on the first day or two of a long rotation, you can WITHOUT RISK, try to pick up time to avoid having your sick bank debited. There is not another sick program in the industry that is even close to this. This program recognizes the real world problems pilots face all the time with sick leave and it addresses them all.
Is that staffing formula based on system wide reserve utilization, or is it base specific. If it is base specific, then I would venture that 7ERA in NY is in violation, and has been for months. But.. I'll bet a cold one that it is system wide, and THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. PERIOD.
05-13-2012 | 08:34 AM
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From: Light Chop
Alfa,
Your post is interesting, and frankly I had to read it a couple of times to get past the snarky, condescending tone to get to the meat. Yes I'm junior, yes I've been on reserve, but don't sit there and tell me I'm too stupid to read.
You represent DALPA and frankly, the worst parts of it. You want us to sit back and color while the "adults" make the decisions with the information that is too "privileged" for the masses to see. You ask us to trust you when there is no trust left in the bank.
For the most part, I've been staying off the forums to wait for the contract. I'm cautiously excited, but the NNP put a lot of angst back in my world.
You have had some great posts in the past, but drop the whole trust me thing and stop talking down to us. What I saw in the NNP is concessionary in nature so far, but I'm sure it's because I'm "too stupid" to see the awesomeness it contains.
I'm hoping/praying that there is more to see. They (the NC) have done some good work outside section 6, so I am hoping for a linear result.
Your post is interesting, and frankly I had to read it a couple of times to get past the snarky, condescending tone to get to the meat. Yes I'm junior, yes I've been on reserve, but don't sit there and tell me I'm too stupid to read.
You represent DALPA and frankly, the worst parts of it. You want us to sit back and color while the "adults" make the decisions with the information that is too "privileged" for the masses to see. You ask us to trust you when there is no trust left in the bank.
For the most part, I've been staying off the forums to wait for the contract. I'm cautiously excited, but the NNP put a lot of angst back in my world.
You have had some great posts in the past, but drop the whole trust me thing and stop talking down to us. What I saw in the NNP is concessionary in nature so far, but I'm sure it's because I'm "too stupid" to see the awesomeness it contains.
I'm hoping/praying that there is more to see. They (the NC) have done some good work outside section 6, so I am hoping for a linear result.
If this was a defense of ALV+15, I'm very concerned we are okay with continued stagnation even as retirements kick in. What's the point of an increased guarantee if pilots get MD'd off to lower paying equipment?
I like you hope for something more from the NC.
05-13-2012 | 08:37 AM
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From: 767er Captain
Alfa,
Your post is interesting, and frankly I had to read it a couple of times to get past the snarky, condescending tone to get to the meat. Yes I'm junior, yes I've been on reserve, but don't sit there and tell me I'm too stupid to read.
You represent DALPA and frankly, the worst parts of it. You want us to sit back and color while the "adults" make the decisions with the information that is too "privileged" for the masses to see. You ask us to trust you when there is no trust left in the bank.
For the most part, I've been staying off the forums to wait for the contract. I'm cautiously excited, but the NNP put a lot of angst back in my world.
You have had some great posts in the past, but drop the whole trust me thing and stop talking down to us. What I saw in the NNP is concessionary in nature so far, but I'm sure it's because I'm "too stupid" to see the awesomeness it contains.
I'm hoping/praying that there is more to see. They (the NC) have done some good work outside section 6, so I am hoping for a linear result.
Your post is interesting, and frankly I had to read it a couple of times to get past the snarky, condescending tone to get to the meat. Yes I'm junior, yes I've been on reserve, but don't sit there and tell me I'm too stupid to read.
You represent DALPA and frankly, the worst parts of it. You want us to sit back and color while the "adults" make the decisions with the information that is too "privileged" for the masses to see. You ask us to trust you when there is no trust left in the bank.
For the most part, I've been staying off the forums to wait for the contract. I'm cautiously excited, but the NNP put a lot of angst back in my world.
You have had some great posts in the past, but drop the whole trust me thing and stop talking down to us. What I saw in the NNP is concessionary in nature so far, but I'm sure it's because I'm "too stupid" to see the awesomeness it contains.
I'm hoping/praying that there is more to see. They (the NC) have done some good work outside section 6, so I am hoping for a linear result.
I understand your angst, I really do. These boards aren't helping, because of the large number of guys that have already launched into DefCon 4. We know very little yet, and to base much on this NNP is really silly, and to try and project things not talked about is just plain stupid. We have NO idea about pay.. NO idea about scopo, yet there are those that are in high warble over that speculation. DO not fall into that trap.
05-13-2012 | 08:40 AM
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From: Light Chop
Is that staffing formula based on system wide reserve utilization, or is it base specific. If it is base specific, then I would venture that 7ERA in NY is in violation, and has been for months. But.. I'll bet a cold one that it is system wide, and THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. PERIOD.
05-13-2012 | 08:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
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From: DAL 330
[QUOTE=alfaromeo;1187216]
Lots of junior guys here understandably don't have enough knowledge of the contract to understand the issues on reserve. There are three issues that all interact to determine reserve staffing, they are:
1. When a reserve is full
2. Max reserve
3. Staffing formula
Alpha,
You bring up some very good points here is what I posted last week:
I have flown reserve on and off for the last 12 years and never even got close to 70 hours in any category I flew in the following bases DFW, LAX, SLC, MCO, unpaid vacation
, ATL ,SLC, LAX, but mostly LAX. The ATL narrow-body guys probably have a different experience.
This is why we need to see some solid analysis and get the NC's take on things.
I do however take exception with your comment about "...junior guys..."
above. Do you actually think most senior guys know these reserve rules any better?
How about ".... besides the contractual experts, most Delta Pilots....."
Scoop
Lots of junior guys here understandably don't have enough knowledge of the contract to understand the issues on reserve. There are three issues that all interact to determine reserve staffing, they are:
1. When a reserve is full
2. Max reserve
3. Staffing formula
Alpha,
You bring up some very good points here is what I posted last week:
I have flown reserve on and off for the last 12 years and never even got close to 70 hours in any category I flew in the following bases DFW, LAX, SLC, MCO, unpaid vacation
, ATL ,SLC, LAX, but mostly LAX. The ATL narrow-body guys probably have a different experience.This is why we need to see some solid analysis and get the NC's take on things.
I do however take exception with your comment about "...junior guys..."
above. Do you actually think most senior guys know these reserve rules any better?
How about ".... besides the contractual experts, most Delta Pilots....."
Scoop
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