How do two pilots inadvertently zoom climb at 5700' per minute while in cruise and NOBODY notices? Seriously, something must be wrong with the Airbus design or the pilots that get chosen to fly for Air France are seriously inept!

KC10,

I'm thinking it's the AF pilots. Notice how these incidents are limited to AF? Delta had a 330 experience the exact same pitot icing incident as AF 447, and they came out if it no problem. I'm fairly confident it happened before AF 447 too. I have a small amount of 320 time(around 2100 hours)and there is no way one shoudn't feel a climb. This is a lack of airmanship.

Airmanship is the problem. Airbus made a big point in their development that they intended to design a aircraft that did not require airmanship. Sadly it has not worked out quite like they planned. We have also watched as most airlines eliminate basic flying skills from training. If you don't require those skills you open the profession up to a larger group and can then lower wages. What does it say when a pilot at a major airline is not comfortable when cleared for the visual on downwind in a 757 flying a standard visual pattern and instead has to fly out to the OM before turning back into the field. They are not even comfortable with their own skills to fly the aircraft. When the chips are down and things go very bad it will not be a matter of trying to fall back on old skills, there will be no old skills to use and the result can be predicted in advance. More and more accidents are along these lines. Many pilots today could not pass a sim check from 25 years ago. The solution is make the check rides easier and easier. That falls back on management desire to expand the pool of pilots to keep wages low.

No, we got fried to death on the black tarmac last year.

But it looks like today should be a lot cooler than last though, still, we'll be at the pool.

Sailings raising questions I didn't know to raise. Chairperson, I yield a remainder of my time to Sailingfun.

Although, what's up with the "tweaking" talk? Is that legit? Can they tweak after a TA if it's this early? If so, would that be a reason to creep this on the dl? <-- :D children of the 90s won't like that song popping in their heads.

I agree it's lack of airmanship. More and more it seems we are shifting towards teaching to fly the automation, rather then the aircraft. Often jumpseating up front on Pinnacle/Mesaba, I see the aircraft flown via autopilot until 200-500 ft AGL. Even Delta limits our abilities. I find it insulting that Delta limits a First Officer's takeoff to 1600 RVR. I hope they have more confidence in their FO's.

Bar, will you report aby conversation you have with RA?? :D

we need something to work off of.

also someone get Guard Dude up on Alert 5 or something, come Monday if we see this TA then we'll easily hit 100,000 posts.

It sounds to me like the MEC needs to open up this process a bit. They need to at least release a summary of what it is they are debating.
The rank and file delta pilots should be allowed to provide some input before our reps vote.
There is no good reason for all this secrecy.
I suppose it's too late now. I hope the reps have been able to stand up to any excess arm-twisting that has been occurring.

They should send out a blast email and announce the time and place for Monday's final debate and open it to the rank-and-file.

Very well put. It's become a huge problem at many of the lower-cost Asian and African airlines that is now spreading in Europe, and threatens to become a problem in the US. My airline takes a pretty enlightened view on automation, and while we do handfly quite a bit I still have to twist FO's arms to get them to turn off the autothrottles once in a while. They say other captains get twitchy when they turn them off. Several airlines in Europe have already prohibited their pilots from turning off autothrottles & mandate autopilot usage above 1000'. Madness, I say....

RA is working the beer tent at the block party if anyone wants to ask him any questions