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Old 03-04-2020, 10:43 AM   #11181  
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Originally Posted by Half wing View Post
Lots of UA hate for someone in the UA pool on American and Delta boards. Careful what you post C-130 driver.
He posted on the Endeavor board asking how long it takes to get to Delta through Endeavor, which seems odd for someone with one ML CJO and an interview at Delta already.
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Old 03-04-2020, 10:51 AM   #11182  
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FWIW, and albeit this is somewhat anecdotal, but on 2 occasions DL honored their obligations during challenging times.

In 2000/2001 there was an economic recession that really hit the airlines hard, a few quarters even prior to 9-11. DL made the decision to stop new hire classes. At the time that decision was made there was one class scheduled that was well inside the 2 week notie period and DL, to its credit, honored that class saying it was the right thing to do at the time. Obviously aafter 9-11 they furloughed that class and many, many other classes. But their actions and intentions were to carry that class as long as they could.

Again in 2008 hiring abruptly stopped due to the merger. They probably could have cancelled the last class in April of that year but they kept it. Then again in 2010 they hired about 300 pilots due to contractual staffing formulas only to find thmselves overstaffed with no need to hire for a while. That example wasn't quite as altruistic as the other ones because that would have involved furloughing and one could argue that the short term savings didn't outweigh the medium term savings of such a move, but its still a valid data point.

What UAL did recently was embarassing and dishonorable. Hopefully all effected can either get other jobs or go back to their previous ones. Its not a "cost saving" issue to any significant extent (23 pilots for a couple months?) and if things get really bad they'll quickly furlough thousands (as will everyone else) anyway. (FWIW I don't think that will happen based on the present position of the industry/economy even now, but things could theoretically get much worse).

By definition since you're in the pool it sounds like you haven't given up a good job or whatever you're doing ATM so it didn't effect you. You're correct to notice it and to be upset by it. But they won't give you a class until this has passed and those 23 have one anyway. That said, yeah its a trashy bush league thing to do for a global airline that won't even notice the cost savings as a rounding error. Shame on them for doing that.

But once they get to you, I'd still go to class. That said, take the DL interview, do your best and if offered a class there that would be my preference but I'm a little biased.
Agree that it was a very shortsighted, and quite frankly pathetic move on United's part. All they managed to do was replace the excitement and optimism of these new hires with disappointment and anger, not to mention the stress on them and their families. I am far from a delta fanboy but I honestly cannot see them doing this if they were in the same position, if for no other reason than that they wouldn't want to create 23 bitter pilots with chips on their shoulders for the rest of their careers. Wouldn't want to risk bringing down the NPS.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:11 PM   #11183  
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I think DAL learned their lesson with "B" scale. Them boys never forgot. Some are still tapping away here.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:57 PM   #11184  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
FWIW, and albeit this is somewhat anecdotal, but on 2 occasions DL honored their obligations during challenging times.

In 2000/2001 there was an economic recession that really hit the airlines hard, a few quarters even prior to 9-11. DL made the decision to stop new hire classes. At the time that decision was made there was one class scheduled that was well inside the 2 week notie period and DL, to its credit, honored that class saying it was the right thing to do at the time. Obviously aafter 9-11 they furloughed that class and many, many other classes. But their actions and intentions were to carry that class as long as they could.

Again in 2008 hiring abruptly stopped due to the merger. They probably could have cancelled the last class in April of that year but they kept it. Then again in 2010 they hired about 300 pilots due to contractual staffing formulas only to find thmselves overstaffed with no need to hire for a while. That example wasn't quite as altruistic as the other ones because that would have involved furloughing and one could argue that the short term savings didn't outweigh the medium term savings of such a move, but its still a valid data point.

What UAL did recently was embarassing and dishonorable. Hopefully all effected can either get other jobs or go back to their previous ones. Its not a "cost saving" issue to any significant extent (23 pilots for a couple months?) and if things get really bad they'll quickly furlough thousands (as will everyone else) anyway. (FWIW I don't think that will happen based on the present position of the industry/economy even now, but things could theoretically get much worse).

By definition since you're in the pool it sounds like you haven't given up a good job or whatever you're doing ATM so it didn't effect you. You're correct to notice it and to be upset by it. But they won't give you a class until this has passed and those 23 have one anyway. That said, yeah its a trashy bush league thing to do for a global airline that won't even notice the cost savings as a rounding error. Shame on them for doing that.

But once they get to you, I'd still go to class. That said, take the DL interview, do your best and if offered a class there that would be my preference but I'm a little biased.
Not only this but in 2001 when furloughs did happen to all the majors, Delta treated furloughees remarkably better than the others. I was in reserves with furloughed pilots from all the majors. Delta guys got yield fare passes to non-rev (for a small fee) the entirety of the furlough. AA guys got bupkis and a swift kick to the junk the day after their furlough. Commuters even had a difficult time getting home often after they collected their badge and said sayonara! UAL gave like 30 days of non rev passes but then cut off furloughs. UAL (even if weren't furloughed) would yank your PASS and CASS privileges once you went on MILEAVE for more than 30days. We'd have reservists who had to bum a buddy pass of others to get back home after doing orders and then drills and otherwise gone from UAL more than 30 days.
These were all CORPORATE decisions, in fact I remember being so amazed by AA's harshness that I thought. they must never plan on bringing anyone back because there are going to be some severely ticked off employees in the future if they do.

Delta actually treated the furloughs like they would be back one day, and even access to non rev made many who had to commute to reserve gigs to make ends meet because they had moved to an airline base really appreciated the gesture.

Of course all those corporate mgrs who made those decisions are long gone by now at each company so no telling how the current slate would react but if history ever repeats itself (and I absolutely hope it doesn't) it will be interesting to see what corporate culture each company falls back into. Everybody's happy when things are going good, it takes leadership to take care of people when things are on the downslope.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:27 PM   #11185  
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Unrelated/related. Just saw DAL Inc. has an exhibition booth at Women In Aviation starting tomorrow.

Anybody have the inside scoop on what to expect, or am I destined to just go home with a nice Delta pen?
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Old 03-04-2020, 04:37 PM   #11186  
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Originally Posted by Mofongo View Post
Unrelated/related. Just saw DAL Inc. has an exhibition booth at Women In Aviation starting tomorrow.

Anybody have the inside scoop on what to expect, or am I destined to just go home with a nice Delta pen?
unless you want to learn about a career as a ramper or FA, don't inquire about being a pilot at the booth. They won't be taking resumes or doing any application review. We'll be doing our own in house job fair later this year for pilots.
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Old 03-04-2020, 04:39 PM   #11187  
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Originally Posted by full of luv View Post
Not only this but in 2001 when furloughs did happen to all the majors, Delta treated furloughees remarkably better than the others. I was in reserves with furloughed pilots from all the majors. Delta guys got yield fare passes to non-rev (for a small fee) the entirety of the furlough. AA guys got bupkis and a swift kick to the junk the day after their furlough. Commuters even had a difficult time getting home often after they collected their badge and said sayonara! UAL gave like 30 days of non rev passes but then cut off furloughs. UAL (even if weren't furloughed) would yank your PASS and CASS privileges once you went on MILEAVE for more than 30days. We'd have reservists who had to bum a buddy pass of others to get back home after doing orders and then drills and otherwise gone from UAL more than 30 days.
These were all CORPORATE decisions, in fact I remember being so amazed by AA's harshness that I thought. they must never plan on bringing anyone back because there are going to be some severely ticked off employees in the future if they do.

Delta actually treated the furloughs like they would be back one day, and even access to non rev made many who had to commute to reserve gigs to make ends meet because they had moved to an airline base really appreciated the gesture.

Of course all those corporate mgrs who made those decisions are long gone by now at each company so no telling how the current slate would react but if history ever repeats itself (and I absolutely hope it doesn't) it will be interesting to see what corporate culture each company falls back into. Everybody's happy when things are going good, it takes leadership to take care of people when things are on the downslope.
And..Delta pilots paid COBRA benefits for furloughed Delta folks..Thank you!!
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:23 AM   #11188  
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And..Delta pilots paid COBRA benefits for furloughed Delta folks..Thank you!!
Yep. I believe UAL did something similar though. Not sure about NW/AA/CA/US/etc.

Also DL furloughs accrued longevity while on furlough which was a very rare thing at the time. Most pilots at other airlines didn't. That may have been copied in post BK contracts by most legacies by now though I think. So if you got furloughed on year one you returned to year 5 (or whatever it was) pay etc. Thats was huge for many.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:29 AM   #11189  
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And..Delta pilots paid COBRA benefits for furloughed Delta folks..Thank you!!
Yeah, without hesitation. Now we're senior money grabbers.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:47 AM   #11190  
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There was also voluntary contribution furlough relief fund that im sure helped more than a few. And many thanks to the selfless volunteers who staffed the outreach efforts.
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