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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Details on Delta TA (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/88532-details-delta-ta.html)

Mesabah 08-31-2014 08:56 AM
Jeeze, all these issues with regular trips, best just to bid CDO's.

EdGrimley 08-31-2014 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by badflaps (Post 1716474)
Please don't forget the automatic door knock listening alert, for the cleaning cart with the playing cards in the wheels.
Good catch! Let's also add the honeymooners on the other side of a paper thin wall and college students that thought it would be cool to rent a hotel room for all their friends to party in next door :)

EdGrimley 08-31-2014 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1716480)
Jeeze, all these issues with regular trips, best just to bid CDO's.
We get it. You love CDO's. Stay right where you're at and you can do them forever :)

Starcheck102 08-31-2014 09:42 AM
It's kind of creepy that he trolls us this way.

Mesabah 08-31-2014 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by Starcheck102 (Post 1716504)
It's kind of creepy that he trolls us this way.
They said Delta regionals are unsafe because of CDO's, had to respond to that, since this is a public forum.

Raging white 08-31-2014 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy (Post 1716422)
I struggled with this myself for about 15 seconds. Unfortunately releasing survey info to us also releases it to management. Do we really want to prep management for the next game? If our survey results were that no one gives a rats arse about scope under 100 seats would you release that info? Of course not: you would fight for every seat. Does management tell us exactly what their goals are? Of course not. Even if they released the info we wouldn't believe them. Even if ALPA released our survey results you wouldn't believe them. So there is no point and the release might actually harm our position in future negotiations.

I asked to see the last contract survey results AFTER the contract took effect, and was still told, no. I have offered to sign whatever NDA they wanted, come to whatever bank vault they wanted, to see the results of a survey MY union used to construct their position and strategy. I have asked my reps to pursue this request and still have received nothing but, "no".
I understand not showing your cards before the game is over, but the game IS over, I'm on the SAME team, and I promise you can hook my testicles up to a car battery if I spill the beans.
Yet, I'm still not trusted with the info.
Color me skeptical.

tsquare 08-31-2014 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1716406)
Knowing the results would provide a metric by which we members could measure the effectiveness of our union's negotiating capacity.

Carl

Not really. You have no idea what goes on in the negotiations room. You do not know the give and take that is necessary to provide the result you see in the form of a TA. All you want is ammunition with which to begin your next assault. The ONLY thing that matters is if the product is satisfactory to YOU. Then vote accordingly. For example. I couldn't care less if the 747 pays $75/hour. (Of course I am guessing that now you believe that the 330 should pay as much as a 747 since you will be taking a paycut in the next 4 years... and that is probably what you can hold) I am never gonna fly it, therefore it doesn't affect me. But it does matter to you. If they came back with a survey that is more weighted to my POV, and it got voted in, my guess is that you would be pizzed anyway. If it comes back and says that we need $400/hour, you will be happy, but fTB probably won't because everything he might want to fly will get paid a lot less, or we have to give up on scope somewhere that affects him... or... whatever. No. You just want a vehicle to "prove" that the union that you dispise so much is incompetent. You can clearly make up enough without any help from them.

Have a nice day Carl.

Raging white 08-31-2014 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy (Post 1716422)
I struggled with this myself for about 15 seconds. Unfortunately releasing survey info to us also releases it to management. Do we really want to prep management for the next game? If our survey results were that no one gives a rats arse about scope under 100 seats would you release that info? Of course not: you would fight for every seat. Does management tell us exactly what their goals are? Of course not. Even if they released the info we wouldn't believe them. Even if ALPA released our survey results you wouldn't believe them. So there is no point and the release might actually harm our position in future negotiations.
Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1716531)
Not really. You have no idea what goes on in the negotiations room. You do not know the give and take that is necessary to provide the result you see in the form of a TA. All you want is ammunition with which to begin your next assault. The ONLY thing that matters is if the product is satisfactory to YOU. Then vote accordingly. For example. I couldn't care less if the 747 pays $75/hour. (Of course I am guessing that now you believe that the 330 should pay as much as a 747 since you will be taking a paycut in the next 4 years... and that is probably what you can hold) I am never gonna fly it, therefore it doesn't affect me. But it does matter to you. If they came back with a survey that is more weighted to my POV, and it got voted in, my guess is that you would be pizzed anyway. If it comes back and says that we need $400/hour, you will be happy, but fTB probably won't because everything he might want to fly will get paid a lot less, or we have to give up on scope somewhere that affects him... or... whatever. No. You just want a vehicle to "prove" that the union that you dispise so much is incompetent. You can clearly make up enough without any help from them.

Have a nice day Carl.
I'm not Carl. I'm not planning an assault. How come they won't let me see the results from the LAST contracts survey?? It's not an unreasonable request.

johnso29 08-31-2014 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by Raging white (Post 1716530)
I asked to see the last contract survey results AFTER the contract took effect, and was still told, no. I have offered to sign whatever NDA they wanted, come to whatever bank vault they wanted, to see the results of a survey MY union used to construct their position and strategy. I have asked my reps to pursue this request and still have received nothing but, "no".
I understand not showing your cards before the game is over, but the game IS over, I'm on the SAME team, and I promise you can hook my testicles up to a car battery if I spill the beans.
Yet, I'm still not trusted with the info.
Color me skeptical.
The game isn't over. C2015 openers are right around the corner, and you can bet DALPA will be looking at the C2012 surveys again.

Raging white 08-31-2014 11:15 AM
[QUOTE=johnso29;1716542]The game isn't over. C2015 openers are right around the corner, and you can bet DALPA will be looking at the C2012 surveys again.[/

So because someone will look at the 2012 survey for a second time, IM NOT ALLOWED to see the results??
By this logic, I don't see how there is any accountability. The remedy available to me (my reps) told me there was nothing they could do. Where is the accountability? Why doesn't my union trust me to see the data WE provided them?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, DPA supporter, or any other agenda-driven agent. It's a reasonable request, and an unreasonable reply.


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