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Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1733564)

I thought they did, but I haven't seen one either.

My reps didn't say he was misquoted. They actually defended what he said! :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1733564)

I thought they did, but I haven't seen one either.

As one MEC committee member said, a retraction is unnecessary as he did not ever say that. He was misquoted.

Again, the worst possible thing both Moak and Alpa could every do is not address this article that contained MULTIPLE quotes that damaged our positions at all the majors prior to negotiating.

Multiple, not just one.

I am for alpa, they are best option today.

I am not for any Moak carry overs conducting the Moak doctrine going forward. That includes at both national and here at DALPA. Add up the damage and misdeeds over the years. It's impressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1733585)

Again, the worst possible thing both Moak and Alpa could every do is not address this article that contained MULTIPLE quotes that damaged our positions at all the majors prior to negotiating.

Multiple, not just one.

I am for alpa, they are best option today.

Agreed on both counts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1733481)

I believe he directly answered his question in paragraph two of his post.

I just reread the article and fail to see where "our union president is on record saying we don't expect or demand big gains".

I'm on my phone right now and my lawn needs to be mowed so I don't have time to break down the article but I'd still like someone to explain using the quotes from the article in question why we should be upset about what Moak said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1733696)

I did that and gave my impression in an earlier post that got me labeled as a DALPA operative. :eek:

Oberon, here it is again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1733321)

Pilot Contract Talks in 2015 to Come Amid Robust Airline Profits

By Justin Bachman August 13, 2014
With U.S. airlines awash in cash these days, one of the big questions in the industry has become how much of that wealth will pilots seek next year when contracts at several carriers come up for renegotiation.

Contracts at four large airlines—Delta Air Lines (DAL), Hawaiian (HA), Spirit (SAVE), and Jazz Aviation, a regional operator for Air Canada—are up for talks in 2015, covering nearly 15,000 pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots union in North America. JetBlue Airways’ (JBLU) 2,500 pilots are also hoping to secure their first contract next year, after voting this spring to join ALPA.

U.S. carriers are producing enormous profits after years of consolidation. In the most recent quarter, the six largest U.S. carriers collectively earned $3.97 billion, with American, Southwest, Alaska Airlines (ALK), and JetBlue all reporting record net income for the period. U.S. carriers lost almost $60 billion from 2000 to 2009.

“This is really a good story,” ALPA President Lee Moak said Tuesday during a visit to Bloomberg Businessweek in New York, part of a quick tour to assure Wall Street analysts that ALPA’s contract demands won’t prove onerous to airlines. “I almost can’t stand it, it’s so good.”

Shareholders have started to realize returns in the form of dividends and stock buybacks. Thanks to the profits, pilots now see themselves as collaborators with management—they increasingly lobby alongside airline executives in Washington. That, says Moak, deepens the working relationships. “All of a sudden, you find yourself on the same side of 95 percent of the issues,” he says.

Another boost has come from profit-sharing schemes adopted by the airlines as a way of rewarding employees when times are good—and the deals carry no commitments should profit shrink. In February, Delta paid employees, including its 11,900 pilots, a record $506 million in profit sharing, equal to about 8 percent of annual salaries. The airline forecasts that amount to increase next year, given higher profit this year.

Southwest expects to pay out $228 million to workers this year in profit shares, nearly double the amount from 2013. United paid $190 million in February tied to its income last year. (Delta and United make the payments on Valentine’s Day.) Several airlines also pay workers monthly incentives for meeting performance targets, such as more on-time arrivals and improvements on the rate of mishandled bags. United paid employees an extra $125 for meeting on-time arrival and departure goals in July. Delta says it paid nearly $92 million last year in similar incentives. “The employees are now coupled to the airlines,” says Moak, a Delta captain who is stepping down at year’s end after four years as president.
Of course, all the cash an airline generates can go to shareholders or employees, and that basic dynamic is likely to play out in the 2015 contract negotiations—especially at Delta and Spirit, both industry leaders when it comes to superior financial returns. Moak contends that ALPA pilots at the larger carriers enjoy what he calls “mature, good contracts” already. Radical overhauls aren’t in the cards, he says.

Most of the contract talks are likely to center on basic compensation—hourly pay rates and how much carriers pay into pilots’ retirement plans. “There will be a business discussion of pay as it relates to revenue,” Moak says. “You can argue about $2 or $2.05, and that matters to the crew member,” but “you’re working on the margins” on the new contracts, he says.

Airlines have been mum on what they’ll seek in the contract talks, despite some analyst queries on quarterly earnings calls. “We have a productive and proactive relationship with our pilots and ALPA, focused on winning in the marketplace and addressing our business challenges and opportunities together,” Delta spokeswoman Kate Modolo said in an e-mail. A Spirit spokesman, Paul Berry, declined to comment, as did a spokeswoman for Hawaiian, Alison Croyle.

So tell me what you think he meant by the comments I highlighted above.

Sorry guys, I've been real busy.

Rather than read a hundred pages to get caught up, could I summarize by assuming Moak's opener is $2.05 but he'll consider settling for $2.00?

Did he say if this was Captains or FOs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1733696)

I just reread the article and fail to see where "our union president is on record saying we don't expect or demand big gains".

Well if you're looking for an exact quote verbatim, he didn't choose those particular words. However, what he said was essentially the same thing. You apparently have some other interpretation. Would you care to enlighten us?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1733696)

I just reread the article and fail to see where "our union president is on record saying we don't expect or demand big gains".

...I'd still like someone to explain using the quotes from the article in question why we should be upset about what Moak said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1733705)

I did that and gave my impression in an earlier post that got me labeled as a DALPA operative. :eek:

"DALPA operative" and the other terms are slang for behavior that is disturbingly clear. It is a behavior that continually looks for ways to explain away very troubling events:

1. Moak stating that ALPA's contract demands won't prove onerous to airlines.
2. Moak stating ALPA's large carrier contracts are mature and radical overhauls are not in the cards.
3. Moak stating you can argue about $2 or $2.05, and that matters to the crew member, but you’re working on the margins” on the new contracts.
4. Donatelli being utterly silent regarding Moak's comments.
5. Reps stating that Moak has no reason to revise his comments because he didn't say anything wrong.
6. Richard stating that labor risk has been taken completely off the table at Delta.
7. Etc., etc.

When line pilots like you, Oberon, sailingfun, alfaromeo shiznit, etc., consistently look for ways to put a benign spin on these statements, it looks very suspicious. It looks like you've been co-opted for one of any number of reasons that are typical of the Ford and Harrison anti-labor law firm. It's hard to miss it when you guys behave this way. The only question is why you do it.

I think you guys serve a valuable purpose however. Most pilots can't imagine a law firm that would target as many line pilots and union officials as possible with either promises or threats to extract the proper behavior. Co-opting a union from the inside out is their main tactic. It just doesn't make sense to attack a union head on. It's a sure loser. Controlling a union is far more efficient and effective.

So please continue the consistent excuse making and benign spin. The more you do it, the more line pilots become educated on the fact that we have some of our own members working against us and for managements goals of strictly minimizing pilot costs.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1733696)

So to hyperbolize a little, you pull into your driveway at the end of a trip just as the USN mwr van is pulling out...nah that's too over the top.