Elliot

Agreed!! We had UAL T38 Phlyer moderating our L&G Forum for a while and my TOS violations seemed to be coming in faster than normal?

P.S. Nothing against the moderating ability of T38 Phlyer.

sailingfun

I thought they were the group that is trying to fracture and split the pilot group going into the next contract. Is it someone else?

index

Yes, it's DALPA. They've already lost half the pilot group. DPA exists because ALPA has failed.

If ALPA represented the pilot group as they should have all along, there would be no DPA. On the other hand, if there were no ALPA, management would create ALPA.

index

I never said that. I said that 80kts needs to join johnso and take a permanent sabbatical.

I don't think we need a moderator at all. You can quote me on that.

TheManager

For a longtime I have heard from the company about how unproductive we are compared to other airlines.

I'm all for being productive, but I want to be scheduled that way as well. To find multiple versions of pairings like this in the bid package is ridiculous and and makes them and their claims disingenuous at best.

They have decided to have multitude of variants in their fleet. They build trips like this.

We need deterrents unfortunately to effect a behavior change. Sadly, we will need the same to fix the JV imbalances in the next contract as well.





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check-In 20:38 Check-Out 22:07
+---------------------+


Day Flt Dep Arr Turn Eqp Block Duty | S M T W T F S |


1 Flight number LAX 21:38 BOS 06:00 738 005:22

|=====================|
BOS 034:36 LAYOVER HOTEL 005:22TL 006:52

| -- -- -- -- |
3 Flight number BOS 18:06 LAX 21:37 738 006:31 |-- -- -- -- -- -- -- |
006:31TL 008:01 |-- -- -- -- -- -- -- |
|-- -- -- -- -- -- -- |


TAFB 049:29 011:53TL |-- -- -- -- 30 -- |
Total Credit 014:08 +---------------------+
Carry Outs:
Date In Period Carry Out
Oct 30 005:22 008:46

shiznit

I completely agree..


It's what I've been "beating".... See 88, I'll post it for myself too

I'm all about us being productive at work!

Projection for 2014
(20 days vacation left in OCT/NOV/DEC.)
14.66% Profit sharing (I think it will be higher, YMMV)
$143.82 . .W2 hourly rate (PS and longevity step included)
1240.5 . . Pay Hours
166 . . . . . days of work
13.83 . . . Avg. Days of work per month
7:28 . . . . Avg Hours/day


I'd like to be at 12.37 days per month! <--C2015 goal

Caution: Personal example below, not indicative of the pilot group as a whole

C2K 2004 average rate would have been $148.68
2014 equivalent with inflation becomes $187.52

Estimating that DAL pilots only worked an avg. of 12.83 days per month during C2K era (I've been continuously told it was between 12-13 "back in the day"), I'll knock 12 days off @ my avg.of 7.47 hrs./day of work. That's a reduction of 89.67 hours.

1240.5-89.67= 1,150.86 hours

C2K 12.B.5.a-b "....cap will not exceed 78:45 for intl. and 79:45 dom."
DAL was block hour biased domestically, but use a 50/50 split to keep it conservative and since we are wanting "C2K" in our current environment (which is near 50/50).

Therefore DAL pilots had a "monthly pay max" of 79:15.
79:15 x 12 = 951 hours of pay

C2K max x Inflation 2004 rate = W2
951 x 187.52 = $178,331.52

C2014 actual x (2014 rate x PS%) = W2
1150.86 x 143.82 = $165,516.69

When getting the same 12-13 days of work each month, as of now I personally need a 7.75% raise on the pay tables to match a C2K 2004 W2* when accounting for days worked for versus how much money I make. <-- See what I did there?

Each pilot's situation for 2014 will be different. Again, I caution that this is not an "every Delta pilot" example; if PS is above or below my guesstimate that changes the bingo %. 88 says he's working way more days than me; likely for a lower avg. (i.e. less productive), and we need to keep improving that.

After the "lost decade" it will take a heck of a lot more than 7.75% to make up the damaged $$$ and QOL. Especially for the deadzoners, and the int'l. fleets in each base probably haven't seen the flex in hrs./day that domestic fleet have, so they'll need an even higher % to equal a C2K adjusted figure.



*This does not include the massively increased cost of medical, etc. However, it doesn't include $$ value increases from: increased RES Guar., ADG 5:15, Co. life Ins., or the QOL increases from vacation slide/any, increased RES days off, LC starts at 1000, 10:30 min rest.

Flamer

Interesting. I did take the DPA survey, and it took it prior to looking at the results. I pretty much fell in the middle of the bell curve on everything. Not a whole lot of statistical outliers in the survey results. It seems to me that folks are putting down reasonable expectations in the survey, and not "swinging for the fence".

It would be cool if a statistically significant number of people (6000?) took the survey so that we could measure how close we get to the actual desires of the pilot group.

Even if you hate DPA, you should take the survey. It takes 5 mins and the questions are actually less leading overall than the ones from alpa. If enough people took the open survey, it may even put a little leverage back in the pilots hands, and if nothing else, provide you a knowledge of the general desires of your fellow pilots.

Do it.

shiznit

Stop, and stop now. If TC/DPA truly cares about the Delta pilots making a strong case for restoration with the leverage to accomplish those ends they would pull it down now. Those that take that survey are undermining themselves and every single Delta pilot.

You are destroying your own leverage.

TC is NOT out to improve our lives, he is out to destroy D-ALPA. It is a HUGE difference. That needs to be taken into consideration in everything that is done via his "club".

Oberon

The DPA survey couldn't possibly be statistically significant because of sample bias. Delta pilots who visit the FPA website are not a random selection of Delta pilots. I have no clue how the results would skew but it's undeniable the results would not be statistically significant.

The ALPA survey suffers from the same sample bias but it isn't really trying to be statistically significant, it to s trying to be democratic. In other words, your vote only counts if you participate. If DPA, DALPA or anyone else really wanted to have statistically significant view of Delta pilots at a particular point in time (views change with time) they would have to select pilots at random.

My statistics education ended a long time ago so I'm not sure what a significant sample size for a population of 12,000 would be. It would be much smaller then the turnout of either survey but would yield better results

tsquare

I agree. Absolutely. A scientific poll would be better and more representative of the group.