Details on Delta TA
08-31-2014, 08:58 AM
#1192
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by badflaps
Please don't forget the automatic door knock listening alert, for the cleaning cart with the playing cards in the wheels.
08-31-2014, 10:44 AM
#1196
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy
I struggled with this myself for about 15 seconds. Unfortunately releasing survey info to us also releases it to management. Do we really want to prep management for the next game? If our survey results were that no one gives a rats arse about scope under 100 seats would you release that info? Of course not: you would fight for every seat. Does management tell us exactly what their goals are? Of course not. Even if they released the info we wouldn't believe them. Even if ALPA released our survey results you wouldn't believe them. So there is no point and the release might actually harm our position in future negotiations.
I asked to see the last contract survey results AFTER the contract took effect, and was still told, no. I have offered to sign whatever NDA they wanted, come to whatever bank vault they wanted, to see the results of a survey MY union used to construct their position and strategy. I have asked my reps to pursue this request and still have received nothing but, "no".
I understand not showing your cards before the game is over, but the game IS over, I'm on the SAME team, and I promise you can hook my testicles up to a car battery if I spill the beans.
Yet, I'm still not trusted with the info.
Color me skeptical.
08-31-2014, 10:47 AM
#1197
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Knowing the results would provide a metric by which we members could measure the effectiveness of our union's negotiating capacity.
Carl
Carl
Not really. You have no idea what goes on in the negotiations room. You do not know the give and take that is necessary to provide the result you see in the form of a TA. All you want is ammunition with which to begin your next assault. The ONLY thing that matters is if the product is satisfactory to YOU. Then vote accordingly. For example. I couldn't care less if the 747 pays $75/hour. (Of course I am guessing that now you believe that the 330 should pay as much as a 747 since you will be taking a paycut in the next 4 years... and that is probably what you can hold) I am never gonna fly it, therefore it doesn't affect me. But it does matter to you. If they came back with a survey that is more weighted to my POV, and it got voted in, my guess is that you would be pizzed anyway. If it comes back and says that we need $400/hour, you will be happy, but fTB probably won't because everything he might want to fly will get paid a lot less, or we have to give up on scope somewhere that affects him... or... whatever. No. You just want a vehicle to "prove" that the union that you dispise so much is incompetent. You can clearly make up enough without any help from them.
Have a nice day Carl.
08-31-2014, 10:53 AM
#1198
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by OldFlyGuy
I struggled with this myself for about 15 seconds. Unfortunately releasing survey info to us also releases it to management. Do we really want to prep management for the next game? If our survey results were that no one gives a rats arse about scope under 100 seats would you release that info? Of course not: you would fight for every seat. Does management tell us exactly what their goals are? Of course not. Even if they released the info we wouldn't believe them. Even if ALPA released our survey results you wouldn't believe them. So there is no point and the release might actually harm our position in future negotiations.
Originally Posted by tsquare
Not really. You have no idea what goes on in the negotiations room. You do not know the give and take that is necessary to provide the result you see in the form of a TA. All you want is ammunition with which to begin your next assault. The ONLY thing that matters is if the product is satisfactory to YOU. Then vote accordingly. For example. I couldn't care less if the 747 pays $75/hour. (Of course I am guessing that now you believe that the 330 should pay as much as a 747 since you will be taking a paycut in the next 4 years... and that is probably what you can hold) I am never gonna fly it, therefore it doesn't affect me. But it does matter to you. If they came back with a survey that is more weighted to my POV, and it got voted in, my guess is that you would be pizzed anyway. If it comes back and says that we need $400/hour, you will be happy, but fTB probably won't because everything he might want to fly will get paid a lot less, or we have to give up on scope somewhere that affects him... or... whatever. No. You just want a vehicle to "prove" that the union that you dispise so much is incompetent. You can clearly make up enough without any help from them.
Have a nice day Carl.
Have a nice day Carl.
08-31-2014, 11:07 AM
#1199
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Raging white
I asked to see the last contract survey results AFTER the contract took effect, and was still told, no. I have offered to sign whatever NDA they wanted, come to whatever bank vault they wanted, to see the results of a survey MY union used to construct their position and strategy. I have asked my reps to pursue this request and still have received nothing but, "no".
I understand not showing your cards before the game is over, but the game IS over, I'm on the SAME team, and I promise you can hook my testicles up to a car battery if I spill the beans.
Yet, I'm still not trusted with the info.
Color me skeptical.
I understand not showing your cards before the game is over, but the game IS over, I'm on the SAME team, and I promise you can hook my testicles up to a car battery if I spill the beans.
Yet, I'm still not trusted with the info.
Color me skeptical.
08-31-2014, 11:15 AM
#1200
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
[QUOTE=johnso29;1716542]The game isn't over. C2015 openers are right around the corner, and you can bet DALPA will be looking at the C2012 surveys again.[/
So because someone will look at the 2012 survey for a second time, IM NOT ALLOWED to see the results??
By this logic, I don't see how there is any accountability. The remedy available to me (my reps) told me there was nothing they could do. Where is the accountability? Why doesn't my union trust me to see the data WE provided them?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, DPA supporter, or any other agenda-driven agent. It's a reasonable request, and an unreasonable reply.
So because someone will look at the 2012 survey for a second time, IM NOT ALLOWED to see the results??
By this logic, I don't see how there is any accountability. The remedy available to me (my reps) told me there was nothing they could do. Where is the accountability? Why doesn't my union trust me to see the data WE provided them?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, DPA supporter, or any other agenda-driven agent. It's a reasonable request, and an unreasonable reply.
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