I imagine the results don't vary much from contract survey to contract survey; more pay, more time off, etc etc. I think T said it best, do your due diligence on a TA and vote accordingly and accept the fact that majority rules and you might not be on that side of the fence. You also have to realize that most every voting pilot did their own due diligence and voted accordingly. The fact that they didn't vote the way you did doesn't make them any less than you or "sheep" or some other derogatory name.
The only reason to see a prior survey would be to cast dispersion on the elected NC and try to come up with a conspiracy theory or some tidbit to support your losing side on the TA, neither of which is good with contract 2015 gearing up.
Good luck on contract 2015, I hope it's such a slam dunk that it passes 75-25 which in itself would be historic.

 

I hope so too.

But surely there are other reasons to see the results. It seems cynical to think the only reason would be to cast "dispersions" or create a conspiracy theory.
How about plain old accountability? If the survey showed a majority would trade pay for coconut donuts on every flight, yet we never asked for them, that's not a "dispersion", it's a data point. I'm sure, like 99% of the guys I fly with, you're a good dude, and fairly smart. So am I. I can handle seeing the data without going all Area 51 on you.
Anecdotal evidence from the cockpit, says I'm not alone. But I stipulate they may have just been being polite and agreeing.

 

If you consider the response unreasonable, then you might want to consider submitting a resolution at a local council meeting. That being said, I don't see the lack of accountability you speak of. The TA goes through several steps of approval before it becomes a contract. If the majority of the pilot group is unhappy with the TA, then it should be voted down.

 

I'm obviously doing a poor job of making my point. I understand we can vote up or down, but what we have no visibility of is the input from the group. Telling smart, responsible people that "it's in your best interest that I keep this info from you" doesn't breed trust. For me, anyway.

It's like Dad coming home with a bucket of chicken and little Tommy saying "I asked for pizza, what did the other kids ask for?"
"None of your business, Tommy"

Anyway, enjoy the weekend guys.

 

You're doing a great job of making your point. DALPA (and their loyal supporters here) are very reticent to provide anything by which their effectiveness can be measured. That's why you're seeing these attempts at confusion and diversion. Survey results (after the contract is signed) would provide that measurement reference. Showing us our own opening position (after the contract is signed) would also do that. And it is for that very reason that they'll never be released.

The closest thing we'll ever get to measuring our union leadership performance is by looking at the vote totals of the members.

Carl

 

I'm a FedEx pilot and just enjoy browsing the forums--so I'm not trying to troll this. But, I'm curious about this inability to view openers at Delta. At FedEx our contract openers are available for all the FedEx pilots to see. Since we are ALPA too, I don't think there is any policy against having contract opening positions published? After all, the company gets these openers so why shouldn't the pilots too? I don't understand why initial positions aren't available to the Delta pilots? Can anyone tell me why this is so?

Once negotiations begin however, we don't get any specific information on the negotiations other that what sections they are bargaining this session, if there's progress on a section, which sections are essentially complete, etc. We get some information on big items that are in contention, but that's it until we see a TA for a vote.

 

Can you give us an example of how specific these openers at FedEx are? Last time around at Delta, we got a 7-page document that was to some extent a conceptual opener. Although a number of specific proposals were included, hard numbers for pay increases, vacation pay, etc. were not shown.

How does that compare to what you've seen at FedEx?

 

Do you have access to the raw pilot survey data or survey data in finished form after receiving a TA or ratifying a contract?

When your in house ALPA does a contract comparison for educational purposes, to whom are you compared? Beside ups.

You still have many of the legacy contract items (trips touching vacation, line bidding, etc.) how is the union working to keep these vs help FedEx reduce head count and increase efficiency?

 

I'm curious how they compare as well. The Delta opener for C2k that was published to the pilot group was:



Delta Pilots' Contract Opener: RESTORING THE PROFESSION

BACKGROUND

Pilot contributions to Delta's record profits are significant.
Value of pilot concessions --- $1 billion-plus since 1996.
Record FY 1998 and FY 1999 profits --- $1 billion each year.
Record 4th quarter profits --- $364 million.
From 1985 to 1998, the top five management salaries at Delta have increased by 223%.

ISSUES

Compensation
Pilot salaries have not been adjusted since 1991, and are lagging inflation by 21% since 1990.
Pilots are seeking an adjustment to wages that reflects their contribution to the company's success and recognizes their professionalism, competence, expertise and productivity.
Elimination of two-tier wage scales including the three-year B-Scale for entry level pilots and Delta Express reduced pay rates.
Restore night pay.
Increase pay for overtime flying.

Job Security and Scope
Increase restrictions on all domestic code-sharing partners in regard to regional jet and turboprop operations to secure more flying for Delta pilots and protect Delta feed.
Increase restrictions on all international partner flying.
Broaden protections and restrictions regarding the use of Delta brand names by other carriers, cargo flying, and marketing and scheduling coordination.
Provide for a voting member of the Delta Board of Directors.

Quality of Life
Improve scheduling and work rules including rest breaks and rest provisions for pilots on reserve.
Improve work rules for pilots performing international flying, including crew rest facilities.
Improve training, including curriculum and pay.
Establish contractual pay and working conditions for all pilot seniority list instructors.
Restore moving expense reimbursement coverage.

Benefits
Improve retirement program.
Improve medical program including a reduction of premiums, maximum lifetime limit and out-of-pocket expenses.
Restore vacation time and pay.
Improve company provided life insurance benefit.


Does that differ significantly from what you get to see and is published at FedEx Raptor?

 

Our pilot copy is a 9 page document. It's general in nature with no specific numbers. Here is a very small example:

+ Enhance compensation and pay provisions
- Establish domestic block recapture (BKO)
- Improve pay on training on day off
- Extra duty period pay
- and about 20 more items under this bullet...

If you have something similar (and it sounds like it) then we're in the same informational ballpark. I misunderstood Carl that you received nothing at all.