sailingfun

Both the union and the company understand that at Delta. The 400 posts on pay banding all come from one grenade lobbed in the room.

Carl Spackler

It's not deflection tsquare, it is the precise point. It has nothing to do with the amount of work Alfa may have done, it has to do with whether that work was beneficial or detrimental. Reps don't fire people whose work was beneficial.

And that's not a character assessment, it's a work product assessment. So you can quit trying to spin this into something you can attack about...or not. I couldn't care less.

Carl

alfaromeo

And yet the MEC voted for it by a large percentage. Explain.

Every deal I have ever seen ever in this industry has never achieved all of the goals set for the negotiations. If you achieve all your goals, you set your goals too low. C2K did not achieve all their goals. Northwest went on strike in 1998 and the pilots did not achieve all their goals.

You don't get to vote in your pay raise, you have to negotiate it. Every sane individual knows that you have goals in negotiations and then you have what is achievable. When you see the achievable, you either decide to take the deal or work on Plan B, which better produce more benefits, not less. The MEC saw what was achievable at that time in those circumstances and chose to accept the deal. The entire pilot group saw what was achievable at that time and in those circumstances and chose to accept the deal.

That was right, that is our way of doing business, democratically chosen. It has been in place for years at Delta. I get it, you don't like it, you lost the vote and so you claim the system is corrupt and wrong. No it isn't. You lost a vote and you are unhappy that's it.

alfaromeo

I went back to flying the line at my request. I was asked back many times to contribute what I could. I asked you to call Kingsley and ask him if I helped his administration and you decline and then fall back on your same old tired propaganda. You know that King is a class individual and will tell the truth so you don't make the call. I still have a long list of data requests from you to back up your other claims, but alas none is forthcoming.

I actually feel sorry for you. You are too afraid to step up and actually take any responsibility for advancing our pilot group. Knowing this, you sit back in your bitter little world lashing out at everyone around you. It seems the less people believe you the more extreme you get.

I have only great memories of the work I have done and occasionally continue to do for the pilots. The quality people around me make the entire process very satisfying and I encourage all the people I fly with to consider getting involved. The Delta MEC at times asks me to do work and I will always answer the call. I am more than content to fly the line and be a cheerleader for the work of others. At some point you might find it helps to build people up rather than always tear them down, but I doubt it.

So for all my many faults and mistakes, at least I tried. You cower behind your keyboard too afraid to step up. I get calls from other pilot groups all the time for help. I guess they all want bad advice just like the Delta pilots.

Carl Spackler

It's already been explained to you but you purposely ignore it in the hopes that people will think the explanations were never made to you. So for at least the tenth time, here we go again. Some reps happily voted for the TA. Some reps voted yes and said one of the reasons they did so was that the MEC administration put them in a no-win situation by signing a deal that did not meet their direction. Still other reps voted no despite the attempt by you and the rest of the MEC administrators to put them in a no-win. The obvious question was whether the MEC admins should have done that to the reps. The reps sure answered that question didn't they.

Carl

gloopy

True, and even with some additional banding there would still be pretty much identical training churn. Look at the rates from M88 to 320 for example. No one bids that just for the raise in hourly rate increase (unless they are ignorant of all aspects of the industry) because the differential is very small and vastly overshadowed by even a slight change in relative seniority. However people do and will continue to make that particular jump for bases, kinds of flying, layovers, legs per day, etc.

I don't think a single payrate will be in either side's "conceptual" opener anyway. The company may or may not want further banding, but I doubt anything will make it to a TA outside of 3 or 4 bands anyway. That's not enough to quell a whole lot of training churn.

The thing to watch out for will be any attempt to increase training freezes. That should be an automatic no go from our NC. And no they're not going to offer us a billion dollars each to do it so let's not use the old lady of the night arguemenitive trick.

Carl Spackler

Pure baloney. You and the others waged a brutal campaign to keep your jobs. That campaign continued after you guys were fired and culminated in the removal of a very good man...Kingsley.

I won't call King because I don't doubt what you say. I'm sure that happened. The problem is that some of you folks left those moments of "contribution" and then proceeded to "contribute" to King's removal.

He is a class act. I know that by the way he handled himself during internal coup that ultimately removed him. Everyone that was involved in undermining him while he was in office should never again be allowed to serve in our union. Ever.

Please. I've always answered everyone of your straw man questions. You're the one that routinely went radio silent for weeks when I proved you to be either wrong or willfully lying.

Carl

johnso29

Find that proof that negotiations didn't occur in order to reach c2012 yet Carl??


That's what I thought.

Carl Spackler

You're throwing an emotional now and it's unbecoming. You seem to be having a difficult time in this new era where you cannot control the message. Social media is here to stay and you'll no longer be able to operate in the shadows. I think the CDO situation has shown our MEC admins that. You're going to have to get used to facts getting released during times you thought things were secret.

If you weren't so busy throwing a tantrum, you'd know I've done ALPA work for years with both my ALPA airlines. But don't let facts get in the way of a good outburst.

Carl

alfaromeo

There is not one rep who for the TA who did not go out and actively support its approval.

I know you think this is an explanation, but this is just a made up story, existing only in your mind. If the reps felt that they had a better path to more money they should have voted no. This whole no-win situation is just baloney made up by you. We won an additional $1 billion in contract value and the MEC and the pilots agreed by a large margin. You keep trying to make up stories about why all these people are too weak minded to make their own decisions but it doesn't fly. Just like all your DPA junk you spouted off here for years; no one bought it. Just like your stupid reasons why you voted no; no one bought it. Somewhere in that bitter little world you live in you think you are making points but instead you are just showing your ignorance with made up propaganda.

Once again, you ignore what the policy manual says and what has been the practice at Delta for years and years. Being a rep means you have to make hard decisions. One of those decisions is looking at a TA that doesn't satisfy all your goals. That will happen every time you negotiate. If the reps couldn't make those decisions then they should have stepped down. Instead, they made the decisions, they supported their decision, and the pilots agree with them. In fact, in each base where a rep voted no, the majority of their pilots disagreed with them and voted for the TA. So who was really representing the bottom up majority? All the rest is just ex-post facto made up hoohah by you and the minority who want to exercise their will above the majority. No one is buying it.