I think he is saying new hire pilots at Endeavor get hotel rooms. As opposed to new hire pilots at Delta who used to work at Endeavor.

We're talking about an actual team, not their fans. If the head coach, or even any of the coaching staff, approached any game with the perspective you just suggested, I suspect that coach would be looking for a new job rather quickly. Tennessee's objective was to win that game. They gave it their best shot and I can guarantee you they wouldn't have done as well if they had approached it with the mentality that they didn't have a "realistic chance" of winning the game. Man, I'd love to be a fly on the wall if you were to say that to the coaches face! :eek:

You're confusing a prediction with an objective. Nobody intends to lose... well, maybe with the exception of DALPA. :rolleyes:

I have some ideas, but it would be foolish to post them here. Whether you like it or not, it's going to have to start with an objective and then design a plan to achieve the objective. Management has had 10 years to bask in the luxury of substantially lower pilot costs. We've given them every reason to believe that's not going to change going forward and that labor risk is off the table. (Seems like I saw a quote about that recently. :rolleyes:) That is not something they will give up easily. Restoration is not going to happen with a big group hug, a round of kumbaya, and a box of Kleenex. But I think there are things that can be done professionally and respectfully... preferably without looking like a bunch of blue collar union thugs with an embarrassing giant rat on display.

Well you're right about that! It's not enough to just say it. You have to mean it! It has to really be your objective, which means your plan and strategies are designed to achieve it. Just as an example, those strategies would NOT include the president of our organization saying that we have mature, good contracts already and that radical overhauls aren't in the cards. THAT would be an example of what NOT to do... if you're objective is restoration.

So...how did we get "restoration" in our 2001 contract?

We had family awareness meetings where we talked about our losses, and what we needed to restore the profession.

The MEC rallied the troops, the MEC put out "Restoration" lapel pins, had meeting, talked openly about what we had lost in POS 96, and what we needed to "Restore the Profession" !

Remember?

Where is that kind of leadership from our MEC today?

Where are the Family Awareness meetings?

Where is the accounting for our financial input to Save Delta?

The MEC acts like the biggest pay cut, and retirement losses in the history of the Profession, never happened!!

The MEC won't even mention how much money we "GAVE" to Delta in 2004, and how much of their "BIllions" in earnings today is DIRECTLY attributable to OUR CONCESSIONS!! The ONLY reason we gave up 42% of our pay and our DB plan was to...

SAVE DELTA!!

Well...It WORKED!

WE SAVED DELTA!!

So, WHEN are WE going to be PAID BACK for our sacrifices??

WHEN??

Thanks for saying that Timbo! It's as if we were just given C2K to so many on this website. We can do it again, just need leadership and guys that will stop selling their profession short. If you don't think you're worth it, you're not...try another profession.

Were there family awareness meetings before the contract survey was tabulated for the 2001 contract? Serious question. It seems early.

Look Oberon, you're looking foolish now. Nobody is saying that "sunk cost" isn't a real economic theory, we're just saying you're misapplying it. Pilots don't want restoration because of what they've invested. They want restoration because of what we voluntarily gave up to save our company from liquidation. We're not asking for that loss to be returned to us like an investor or as a loan to be repaid. We're asking that those old rates be restored because our partnership was successful in keeping our company out of liquidation.

That's the last I'll try to speak to you about this because if you still want to argue your "sunk cost" misapplication, you're just being stubborn and that's a waste of everyone's time.

I was going to explain it to you Oberon, but Timbo has done a much better job than I could have done. Please read what's below carefully and please don't let me hear from you again that nobody has shown you a lucid argument.


Carl

I suspect you're wrong. I've never coached at that level, but have worked with youth sports for many years. You train, you develop, you encourage, you get them riled up so that they play better than they ever thought they could.

But you never snow them. You never tell them things that you know not to be true. You may not necessarily tell them everything you know(;)), but you don't BS them. They will always see right through that.

Timbo,

I'll sum up the answers from the usual suspects for you:rolleyes:

What are you willing to give up for that?
What will the other delta employees think?
Richard won't like that!

I would certainly not call the 01 contract a restoration contract. It was a contract with lots of give and take that put our hourly rates at the top of the industry but left our overall pilot costs slightly below the top and brought all the major industry players very close to each other with the exception of SWA who still lagged well behind. It certainly was not industry leading in the scope section.
Contrast that with where we stand today and the numbers that will end up in front of the NMB and we have a vastly different situation.