Or victims of deflategate. :D

From The other forum: Word is that Rich Harwood (strategic planning chair) has somehow inserted himself into negotiations.

Donatelli looks to be folding like a cheap suit.

We've got to keep the heat on our reps not to settle for whatever crap deal Harwood and the other management wanna-be's try to cram down.

Even better, here's a portion of the C20 update:

• The Negotiating Committee told the MEC last week that neither pay nor Profit Sharing (PS) had been discussed with the Company.
• Emphasizing….the MEC has not been briefed about any pay rate discussions nor Profit Sharing (PS) trade for pay (“monetization”, “reducing ‘at-risk’ compensation”, or any other favored euphemism) proposals from the Company.

Carl's comment: Does this mean pay proposals haven't been exchanged with management? No. Have we given the negotiating committee the direction regarding pay? Yes. Could we be very close to a deal on pay? Yes. Could the negotiating committee sign off on a TA that includes the rumored pay/profit sharing proposals without returning to the MEC for further direction? Yes.

• We, the C20 reps, also don’t know if we are close to a deal. We also believe that is the case with the other members of the MEC.
• The MEC hasn’t been substantively briefed on, nor discussed, the current status of negotiations relative to our own (ALPA's) list of items which were included and referred to in ALPA’s Contract Opener.

Carl's comments: Our MEC has NOT been substantively briefed on the current status of negotiations. Our MEC does NOT know whether we are close to a deal. Reps who say we haven't discussed pay are only repeating how they are told to answer that question. The reps are not doing so based on personal knowledge from a proper BRIEFING by the MEC administration.

• There's certainly always the possibility that some may know more than we do, but use extreme caution when considering online info and rumors.

Carl's comments: Always a great idea.

• The MEC received a short notice (same day) visit from senior management, about which the MEC received minimal pre-briefing relative to the details of their presentation, which, of course, is confidential.
  
• Although we did encounter some serious process problems last week, we still believe that there remains an opportunity for an appropriately positive result.

Carl's comments: This bears out exactly what I've been hearing. Specifically, the MEC administration is completely dysfunctional...far WORSE than when Kingsley Roberts was recalled and during the CDO fiasco. Donatelli is viewed as nothing more than a memo writer and stater of buzzwords like "historic contract" etc. He has no control or respect from other MEC administrators. This has led to the SPC chairman and other administrators trying to broker a deal with management directly, then having the negotiating committee simply signing the TA knowing it would (yet again) put the reps in a no-win situation and would likely pass by a 10-9 margin. The rumors we are hearing are from one or two MEC administrators (likely from a negotiating committee member) that is appalled at what he is seeing. The leak is an attempt to still salvage a proper process instead of another cram down.

• We also still believe that the MEC has the ability to stop, alter or re-direct a quick, unsatisfactory deal or any unsatisfactory deal for that matter. A fast deal is certainly good as long as it doesn’t negatively affect the results. Accelerating a deal subject to what could be questionable or false deadlines and compromising the overall result is not a good idea.

Carl's comments: Regardless of these reps' beliefs, they only have the ability to stop, alter or redirect a quick unsatisfactory deal by voting DOWN a Section 6 TA signed with management. That will NOT happen. The reps don't have the votes to do that. It's still 10-9.

• We still believe that ALPA / DALPA has the ability to deliver a deal that appropriately recognizes the pilot group’s contributions to the Company’s current level of success, as well as the many sacrifices in pay, benefits, retirement, quality of life, and career progression / stagnation that were made during the “lost decade”.

Carl's comments: The extreme dysfunction among our own MEC administration is making this look increasingly unlikely. Our MEC chairman is completely disrespected, and is being outflanked. The people doing it may well see it as the better option compared to a public recall and replacement of the chairman in the middle of Section 6

What a mess.

Carl

OK, The negotiating committee told the MEC that neither pay nor profit sharing has been discussed with the company.. ? and you somehow extrapolate the stuff you posted?

Look OFG, if you wish to only read what you want and ignore the rest, I'm not trying to stop you. Knock yourself out.

I've been hearing consistent items from multiple good sources. The C20 comments are backing up what I'm hearing. I've listed exactly why. Go back to your TV show. Nothing for you to see here.

Carl

So the Strategic Planning Committee is 'negotiating' with management, on their own?

Without any input or oversight by either our MEC or our Negotiating Committee??

If true, that is very disturbing, but given what happened in 2012 not surprising.

And look at the MEC vote count, 10 yes, 9 no...any wonder why CVG is still open and MEM was quickly closed? Just like DFW was closed just prior to the MEC election that put LM in charge, to give away our DB plan and sell us LOA 51.

Same guys in charge of SPC.

No wonder we are still 18% behind 2004 rates.

Not true.

btw, a lot of your post is also not true.

Malone's administration alleged that management closed DFW just to get at the MEC. It delayed the MEC Chairman election by 2 weeks back in August, 2005. A "special investigation" was conducted by the Malone camp. They came up with nothing. The one person that alleged that management interfered recanted in order to not have to take a sworn deposition. It also didn't pass the common sense test. Management would have to assume that when they announced the base closure that the MEC would be dissatisfied enough to elect a new MEC Chair several months later, and that whoever replaced the current Chair would be "better." Oh, and they'd also have to violate Federal law (union interference). Just how many flights do we have in DFW now versus the peak?:rolleyes:

For C2012, the two voting MEM (RM and JS) reps were solidly in the "yes" camp. Had the base stayed open the vote would have been 16-5 to pass.

Same guys aren't in charge of the SPC. There has been a lot of turnover on that committee. The negotiating committee has one guy in the same seat. There's a new MEC Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, and Treasurer.

Your pension plan wasn't "given away," it met the standards for termination. There used to be 100K DB plans in this country; now there are less than 30K. Plans that didn't meet the standard (NWA pilot, DAL non-contract plan) weren't terminated.

Yes, we're still 18% behind C2K peak payrates. And nobody else currently has those rates either, including the three companies that never went bankrupt (SWA, FDX, UPS). Why is that, Timbo? You seem to forget that while you were enjoying those payrates and the rapid advancement from the run on the bank that 1310 of your peers were making ZERO from that contract.

I want more, Timbo, a lot more. How do posts like yours help us get there? Shoot outside the circle, please.

Wow. Facts. No black helicopters either.

Posts like this carry credibility and weight.

Agreed. Excellent post slowplay

Why are some guys so afraid of critical thought and thorough analysis; are they trying to hide something?

Why are they afraid of open and vigorous debate; is their position too weak to withstand it?