Details on Delta TA
05-11-2015 | 10:37 AM
#4112
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
I fear its happening again.
The permanent ALPA operatives are all maneuvering into position.
The same old names are returning to the forums.
Our elected reps are about to get rolled.
2012 deja vu.
If they want to stop it before its too late, they should PROHIBIT any public announcement of a TA by the administration without MEC approval.
Linda Puchala telling our guys that they must "send people to the table who have the power to make the deal" is nothing but a way for her to take power away from line pilots and give it to the old bulls in the union.
Management, the NMB and the permanent ALPA bureaucrats are all the same.
Big ALPA doesn't want a long fight. That costs money.
They just want the dues to keep flowing.
The permanent ALPA operatives are all maneuvering into position.
The same old names are returning to the forums.
Our elected reps are about to get rolled.
2012 deja vu.
If they want to stop it before its too late, they should PROHIBIT any public announcement of a TA by the administration without MEC approval.
Linda Puchala telling our guys that they must "send people to the table who have the power to make the deal" is nothing but a way for her to take power away from line pilots and give it to the old bulls in the union.
Management, the NMB and the permanent ALPA bureaucrats are all the same.
Big ALPA doesn't want a long fight. That costs money.
They just want the dues to keep flowing.
05-11-2015 | 10:38 AM
#4113
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Not true.
btw, a lot of your post is also not true.
Malone's administration alleged that management closed DFW just to get at the MEC. It delayed the MEC Chairman election by 2 weeks back in August, 2005. A "special investigation" was conducted by the Malone camp. They came up with nothing. The one person that alleged that management interfered recanted in order to not have to take a sworn deposition. It also didn't pass the common sense test. Management would have to assume that when they announced the base closure that the MEC would be dissatisfied enough to elect a new MEC Chair several months later, and that whoever replaced the current Chair would be "better." Oh, and they'd also have to violate Federal law (union interference). Just how many flights do we have in DFW now versus the peak?
For C2012, the two voting MEM (RM and JS) reps were solidly in the "yes" camp. Had the base stayed open the vote would have been 16-5 to pass.
Same guys aren't in charge of the SPC. There has been a lot of turnover on that committee. The negotiating committee has one guy in the same seat. There's a new MEC Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, and Treasurer.
Your pension plan wasn't "given away," it met the standards for termination. There used to be 100K DB plans in this country; now there are less than 30K. Plans that didn't meet the standard (NWA pilot, DAL non-contract plan) weren't terminated.
Yes, we're still 18% behind C2K peak payrates. And nobody else currently has those rates either, including the three companies that never went bankrupt (SWA, FDX, UPS). Why is that, Timbo? You seem to forget that while you were enjoying those payrates and the rapid advancement from the run on the bank that 1310 of your peers were making ZERO from that contract.
I want more, Timbo, a lot more. How do posts like yours help us get there? Shoot outside the circle, please.
btw, a lot of your post is also not true.
Malone's administration alleged that management closed DFW just to get at the MEC. It delayed the MEC Chairman election by 2 weeks back in August, 2005. A "special investigation" was conducted by the Malone camp. They came up with nothing. The one person that alleged that management interfered recanted in order to not have to take a sworn deposition. It also didn't pass the common sense test. Management would have to assume that when they announced the base closure that the MEC would be dissatisfied enough to elect a new MEC Chair several months later, and that whoever replaced the current Chair would be "better." Oh, and they'd also have to violate Federal law (union interference). Just how many flights do we have in DFW now versus the peak?
For C2012, the two voting MEM (RM and JS) reps were solidly in the "yes" camp. Had the base stayed open the vote would have been 16-5 to pass.
Same guys aren't in charge of the SPC. There has been a lot of turnover on that committee. The negotiating committee has one guy in the same seat. There's a new MEC Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, and Treasurer.
Your pension plan wasn't "given away," it met the standards for termination. There used to be 100K DB plans in this country; now there are less than 30K. Plans that didn't meet the standard (NWA pilot, DAL non-contract plan) weren't terminated.
Yes, we're still 18% behind C2K peak payrates. And nobody else currently has those rates either, including the three companies that never went bankrupt (SWA, FDX, UPS). Why is that, Timbo? You seem to forget that while you were enjoying those payrates and the rapid advancement from the run on the bank that 1310 of your peers were making ZERO from that contract.
I want more, Timbo, a lot more. How do posts like yours help us get there? Shoot outside the circle, please.
Tell me again, how did our most recent contract go down?
Oh, and 4,8,3,3 was just an intenet rumor too, right?
I'm sure the membership said they wanted to trade profit sharing for pay raise too, right?
When I spoke with Rich Harwood, on the phone, when I heard LM had been elected, (I'd never even heard his name before!) one of the reasons he said they elected LM over JM was, "Malone was NOT going to give the company another pay cut, and Delta will liquidate if we don't..."
I said, "You don't really believe that, do you? Really? What other leverage does the company have? Of course that's what they are going to say!"
So, we got LOA51, after the company reneged on the Bankruptcy Protection Letter, well, JM was no longer in a giving mood. But the some of the SAME GUYS (RH) who gave the company MORE back then, are STILL working FULL TIME for the MEC NOW!
So tell me more about how much real turnover there's been since 2005.
05-11-2015 | 11:20 AM
#4115
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
From The other forum: Word is that Rich Harwood (strategic planning chair) has somehow inserted himself into negotiations.
Donatelli looks to be folding like a cheap suit.
We've got to keep the heat on our reps not to settle for whatever crap deal Harwood and the other management wanna-be's try to cram down.
Donatelli looks to be folding like a cheap suit.
We've got to keep the heat on our reps not to settle for whatever crap deal Harwood and the other management wanna-be's try to cram down.
Tough times.
Carl
05-11-2015 | 11:39 AM
#4116
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
The guy in charge now was just an SPC member before, but your point is valid. It's the same anti-democratic crowd that keeps finding their way back to the pig trough...no matter how many times reps fire them.
10-9 always in favor of surrender. We're so close...but so far.
Carl
05-11-2015 | 11:51 AM
#4117
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 833
Likes: 5
From: Captain
The problem is that we're still a 10-9 MEC with the majority being the "surrender early" crowd like the ATL reps. That's simply a fact of life. All the pressure in the world isn't going to change the fact that those 10 reps seem to represent the majority desire of their bases.
Tough times.
Carl
Tough times.
Carl
05-11-2015 | 12:04 PM
#4118
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Not true.
btw, a lot of your post is also not true.
Malone's administration alleged that management closed DFW just to get at the MEC. It delayed the MEC Chairman election by 2 weeks back in August, 2005. A "special investigation" was conducted by the Malone camp. They came up with nothing. The one person that alleged that management interfered recanted in order to not have to take a sworn deposition. It also didn't pass the common sense test. Management would have to assume that when they announced the base closure that the MEC would be dissatisfied enough to elect a new MEC Chair several months later, and that whoever replaced the current Chair would be "better." Oh, and they'd also have to violate Federal law (union interference). Just how many flights do we have in DFW now versus the peak?
For C2012, the two voting MEM (RM and JS) reps were solidly in the "yes" camp. Had the base stayed open the vote would have been 16-5 to pass.
Same guys aren't in charge of the SPC. There has been a lot of turnover on that committee. The negotiating committee has one guy in the same seat. There's a new MEC Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, and Treasurer.
Your pension plan wasn't "given away," it met the standards for termination. There used to be 100K DB plans in this country; now there are less than 30K. Plans that didn't meet the standard (NWA pilot, DAL non-contract plan) weren't terminated.
Yes, we're still 18% behind C2K peak payrates. And nobody else currently has those rates either, including the three companies that never went bankrupt (SWA, FDX, UPS). Why is that, Timbo? You seem to forget that while you were enjoying those payrates and the rapid advancement from the run on the bank that 1310 of your peers were making ZERO from that contract.
I want more, Timbo, a lot more. How do posts like yours help us get there? Shoot outside the circle, please.
btw, a lot of your post is also not true.
Malone's administration alleged that management closed DFW just to get at the MEC. It delayed the MEC Chairman election by 2 weeks back in August, 2005. A "special investigation" was conducted by the Malone camp. They came up with nothing. The one person that alleged that management interfered recanted in order to not have to take a sworn deposition. It also didn't pass the common sense test. Management would have to assume that when they announced the base closure that the MEC would be dissatisfied enough to elect a new MEC Chair several months later, and that whoever replaced the current Chair would be "better." Oh, and they'd also have to violate Federal law (union interference). Just how many flights do we have in DFW now versus the peak?
For C2012, the two voting MEM (RM and JS) reps were solidly in the "yes" camp. Had the base stayed open the vote would have been 16-5 to pass.
Same guys aren't in charge of the SPC. There has been a lot of turnover on that committee. The negotiating committee has one guy in the same seat. There's a new MEC Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, and Treasurer.
Your pension plan wasn't "given away," it met the standards for termination. There used to be 100K DB plans in this country; now there are less than 30K. Plans that didn't meet the standard (NWA pilot, DAL non-contract plan) weren't terminated.
Yes, we're still 18% behind C2K peak payrates. And nobody else currently has those rates either, including the three companies that never went bankrupt (SWA, FDX, UPS). Why is that, Timbo? You seem to forget that while you were enjoying those payrates and the rapid advancement from the run on the bank that 1310 of your peers were making ZERO from that contract.
I want more, Timbo, a lot more. How do posts like yours help us get there? Shoot outside the circle, please.
You are a founding member of the surrender early crowd and have vigorously advocated minimizing pilot expectations and minimizing pilot costs to Delta. You do NOT want a lot more because you're too afraid to fight for it.
Regardless, welcome back Slowplay. I think you were the last holdout, so now we have the full surrender team back in time for C2015 here on APC.
Carl
05-11-2015 | 12:08 PM
#4119
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
05-11-2015 | 12:10 PM
#4120
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
I fear its happening again.
The permanent ALPA operatives are all maneuvering into position.
The same old names are returning to the forums.
Our elected reps are about to get rolled.
2012 deja vu.
If they want to stop it before its too late, they should PROHIBIT any public announcement of a TA by the administration without MEC approval.
Linda Puchala telling our guys that they must "send people to the table who have the power to make the deal" is nothing but a way for her to take power away from line pilots and give it to the old bulls in the union.
Management, the NMB and the permanent ALPA bureaucrats are all the same.
Big ALPA doesn't want a long fight. That costs money.
They just want the dues to keep flowing.
The permanent ALPA operatives are all maneuvering into position.
The same old names are returning to the forums.
Our elected reps are about to get rolled.
2012 deja vu.
If they want to stop it before its too late, they should PROHIBIT any public announcement of a TA by the administration without MEC approval.
Linda Puchala telling our guys that they must "send people to the table who have the power to make the deal" is nothing but a way for her to take power away from line pilots and give it to the old bulls in the union.
Management, the NMB and the permanent ALPA bureaucrats are all the same.
Big ALPA doesn't want a long fight. That costs money.
They just want the dues to keep flowing.
Carl
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