Originally Posted by Superdad

I can't believe no one has posted today's council 66 update.

Basically says a TA is nigh...

"May 15, 2015
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)

Council 66 Pilots,

As you are aware, negotiations between ALPA and the Company are proceeding at a record pace. It appears a tentative agreement is quite possible in the very near future. Emphasis on possible. There are no guarantees when it comes to negotiations.

Recently, the company announced a large stock buyback program as part of its capital deployment strategy. This buyback shows the strength of Delta Air Lines and is, in no small part, a result of the sacrifices that this pilot group made years ago to help Delta get back on its feet and become the airline that it is today. It also reaffirms what we have said all along—the Company has ample resources to deliver the contract we expect and deserve.

We want to assure you the direction we are giving the negotiators and the MEC administration is to make sure we get it right and not sacrifice quality for expediency.

We will continue to fight on your behalf, with your direction as our guide.

Stay informed. Your continued input matters.

Fly safe,"

Originally Posted by DeadHead

What was the TAKE, for the pilot group, when they GAVE up pay/retirement/work rules during the bankruptcy TA's?

Originally Posted by Alan Shore

A few that I recall...

From LOA 46 (pre-BK):
-- Targeted 11% DC plan
-- Pilot - Pilot Swap Board
-- Bidding for CQ (delayed implementation)

From LOA $51 (BK):
-- $2.1B cash upon exiting BK
-- Requirement to remove 6 seats from all 76-seat jets if Troy Kane furloughed
-- Increased PS
-- MPPP distributed to pilots for self-investment
-- Flowback JS

Not that any of these came close to making them "cost-neutral" by any means...

Originally Posted by DeadHead

The point I was moreorless trying to make is that I believe contract negotiations are about realistic leverage as opposed to equal amounts of give and take.

Originally Posted by DeadHead

How was the $2.1 billion distributed? I'm assuming this was small payout to each pilot after the pension fund was liquidated. Is that accurate?

Originally Posted by DeadHead

Thanks Alan.
I wasn't sincerely asking the question, and not trying to come across as argumentative.

The point I was moreorless trying to make is that I believe contract negotiations are about realistic leverage as opposed to equal amounts of give and take.

To ask another question. How was the $2.1 billion distributed? I'm assuming this was small payout to each pilot after the pension fund was liquidated. Is that accurate?

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Contract negotiations are always about leverage. There will also always be some give and take. It's the leverage that determines the percentages of the give and take.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Contract negotiations are always about leverage. There will also always be some give and take.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore

Agreed. In down times, it's more give than take (although often not enough to satisfy the company), and in up times it's more take than give (although often not enough to satisfy the pilots).



It was paid out after Delta emerged from BK, which was after the pension was terminated. About 2/3 of the amount was coming in any case, while the other 1/3 was the result of that termination. The size of each pilot's payout was determined by a formula that considered a number of factors, including a pilot's seniority, his pay rate, his age, his status as active or inactive, etc.

Being fairly junior at the time, my pay out filled up my 415(c) for several years with the remaining cash putting me well into AMT.

Originally Posted by Falcon7

If I recall, the claim ($2.1B) was not part of the pension termination it was just a claim for BK concessions. We got a $650M note for the termination.

Originally Posted by DeadHead

I don't quantify taking $100 out of someone's pocket, then handing them a $5 bill as a give and take. I look at it as someone taking $95 out of somebody's pocket.

The bankruptcy LOAs cost the pilots ALOT more than it did the company. I don't see at as unreasonable to think that C2015 should cost the company ALOT more than it does the pilot group. I don't believe we should be giving any concessions, and if it is part of the deal than we should demand an apples to apples cost comparison.