Details on Delta TA
05-31-2015 | 04:52 AM
#5201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
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Part A
This document was put out by DPA. I am posting it for reference only. This is NOT an endorsement of DPA. I am unwilling to duplicate work already done. (lazy and don't mind stealing information)
This only a screen shot of the document. It shows a single number is representative of the percent needed to get to the scale. The other pages of their document mirror this for other positions.
18.3%
Attachment 2120
We are asking for an 18.3% increase in pilot salaries.
This document was put out by DPA. I am posting it for reference only. This is NOT an endorsement of DPA. I am unwilling to duplicate work already done. (lazy and don't mind stealing information)
This only a screen shot of the document. It shows a single number is representative of the percent needed to get to the scale. The other pages of their document mirror this for other positions.
18.3%
Attachment 2120
We are asking for an 18.3% increase in pilot salaries.
Might want to check that math after the .55% increase from 3.B.4. Its about 17.4(5)% across the board.
05-31-2015 | 04:53 AM
#5202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
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What is 18.3% in dollars.
You will have to use your surface or go to Deltanet for this one.
Inside our business: Flight Operations - page 5 the flight ops expense graph shows pilot salaries at 75% of a 3 billion dollar budget or 2.25 billion.
2.25B X 18.3% = 411.75M
We are asking for:
$412 million/year
You will have to use your surface or go to Deltanet for this one.
Inside our business: Flight Operations - page 5 the flight ops expense graph shows pilot salaries at 75% of a 3 billion dollar budget or 2.25 billion.
2.25B X 18.3% = 411.75M
We are asking for:
$412 million/year
Does this number include, DPSP, etc? I do not think so and the number is higher.
05-31-2015 | 05:01 AM
#5203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
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From: undefined
You know what would've been cool?
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
Whatever nickle and dime short comings we'd had because of pilot hourly pay would've been more than made up for with improved QC, productivity and roi.
You could have made that argument and the it down for all to know is what you demanded.
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
Whatever nickle and dime short comings we'd had because of pilot hourly pay would've been more than made up for with improved QC, productivity and roi.
You could have made that argument and the it down for all to know is what you demanded.
05-31-2015 | 05:15 AM
#5204
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,327
Likes: 818
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
A+b=c
Part C
Profit sharing is worth 10% of 2.5B + 20% of 2.5B+
2014 was 4.5B
250M + 400M based on 2014 payout. = 650M
If monetized dollar for dollar: 650M
That's a 28.8% pay increase day 1. If you keep profit sharing at 20% above 4.5 billion this is a cost neutral deal.
The original Question was:
Is this to much to ask?
NO!, its too Little!
Cost neutral is a 28.8% raise if we reset profit sharing to 4.5B
Ed Bastian could still say "cost neutral" and we would still participate in the upside.
Disclaimer:
That's just pay. We need to make gains. For every dollar value we give up we are a cost savings to management. Notice I said gains not the c word. I can't even use that word in this, the best negotiating environment in our history.
Profit sharing is worth 10% of 2.5B + 20% of 2.5B+
2014 was 4.5B
250M + 400M based on 2014 payout. = 650M
If monetized dollar for dollar: 650M
That's a 28.8% pay increase day 1. If you keep profit sharing at 20% above 4.5 billion this is a cost neutral deal.
The original Question was:
Is this to much to ask?
NO!, its too Little!
Cost neutral is a 28.8% raise if we reset profit sharing to 4.5B
Ed Bastian could still say "cost neutral" and we would still participate in the upside.
Disclaimer:
That's just pay. We need to make gains. For every dollar value we give up we are a cost savings to management. Notice I said gains not the c word. I can't even use that word in this, the best negotiating environment in our history.
05-31-2015 | 05:30 AM
#5205
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
Attachment 2119
Is this too much to ask?
Can we restore this pay scale on the date of signing? The answer requires two pieces of information. In this vacuum of information I will try to explain how we get there. Some of the information I will reference is not public but every Delta pilot has access to it. I would like this to be a fact based argument that can be logically presented to any Delta pilot so your scrutiny is very welcome.
A - the cost of the increase in pay rates
B - can they be palatable enough to management to be accepted
Is this too much to ask?
Can we restore this pay scale on the date of signing? The answer requires two pieces of information. In this vacuum of information I will try to explain how we get there. Some of the information I will reference is not public but every Delta pilot has access to it. I would like this to be a fact based argument that can be logically presented to any Delta pilot so your scrutiny is very welcome.
A - the cost of the increase in pay rates
B - can they be palatable enough to management to be accepted
05-31-2015 | 05:33 AM
#5206
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Joined: Feb 2008
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You might want to check your math. The pilots are now about 37% of the profit sharing pool.
05-31-2015 | 05:52 AM
#5207
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,327
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From: N60.4858 W149.9327
The scrutiny is welcome. Please show me the data and I will adjust it.
Payout Calculation PTIX Levels
% of PTIX Paid under Program $0 to $2.5 billion 15.0% in 2012 10.0% in 2013 and each year thereafter Over $2.5 billion 20.0%
This is from section 3 compensation I. profit sharing of the current PWA
Payout Calculation PTIX Levels
% of PTIX Paid under Program $0 to $2.5 billion 15.0% in 2012 10.0% in 2013 and each year thereafter Over $2.5 billion 20.0%
This is from section 3 compensation I. profit sharing of the current PWA
05-31-2015 | 05:58 AM
#5208
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Joined: Feb 2008
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You know what would've been cool?
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
Btw, the analysis was done. The MEC was briefed. With the actual numbers, not speculation and assumption. It didn't work out as you wish it did. Ask the current and former code-share guys if you want another source.
Oh, and before you trot out your 3 year old spreadsheets (how do those look now anyway
) UAL is just beginning their RJ reductions this year. Other than upgauging, AMR hasn't really gotten started in a meaningful way except for transferring Envoy assets. So for something that was "going to happen anyway" it took our competitors 3 years to begin. We're already back in negotiations for a new deal. FDX, SWA, and UPS "wound the clock." UAL won't negotiate for another year and still lags us by a year. APA traded the guts of their contract (scope, sick leave, disability, work rules) for pay, but is now stuck until 2020 (new amendable date).And you're flying in a shiny "new" jet, and DCI has about 30% fewer pilots.
05-31-2015 | 06:21 AM
#5209
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Joined: May 2015
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From: Power top
In 2012, our economic analysis folks did not predict the billions in profits. So we accepted paltry pay raises and concessions. Now we know the truth moving forward. The company wants a fast contract because it will be difficult to negotiate in this climate of ridiculous profits, including stock buy backs, dividends, etc. I would predict they go on another buying spree, i.e. Virgin Atlantic, refineries, GOL and RJ purchases. They did it post C2102.
"Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
"Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
05-31-2015 | 06:22 AM
#5210
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
Fixed your statement....
Not if we keep writing more outsourced jumbo RJ's into these TA's every 3 or 4 years. Let's hold the line for once. I understand many of those crafting these TA's are looking after their own seniority situation and don't mind horse trading larger RJ's keeping the divisive outsourced RJ dream of Leo alive. It's unnecessary and short sighted. Let's do something good for the industry.
Gloopy suggested creating a timeline to sunset outsourced flying. This is the correct way to go. Fight scope on the top and bottom end. It creates solidarity. We write letters to our government leaders to fend off the middle east carriers while we let our union take us down the primrose path of further scope creep that harms all Delta pilots. It's the definition of insanity.
Not if we keep writing more outsourced jumbo RJ's into these TA's every 3 or 4 years. Let's hold the line for once. I understand many of those crafting these TA's are looking after their own seniority situation and don't mind horse trading larger RJ's keeping the divisive outsourced RJ dream of Leo alive. It's unnecessary and short sighted. Let's do something good for the industry.
Gloopy suggested creating a timeline to sunset outsourced flying. This is the correct way to go. Fight scope on the top and bottom end. It creates solidarity. We write letters to our government leaders to fend off the middle east carriers while we let our union take us down the primrose path of further scope creep that harms all Delta pilots. It's the definition of insanity.
Carl
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