We had the exact same thing happen during our last contract C2012. We were told all the rumors were put out by management to rile us up.....have patience.....wait for the TA.......MEC will put it out....settle down.......etc.

All the rumors were right last time....I'm sure they are close this time around as well.

Truth in advertising to start. I'm a new hire military retiree, so I know I have a limited knowledge base. But here goes...

1st point. For many years, my father ran a paper mill that was non-union, in an industry that is nearly ALL union. They stayed had a very good profit-sharing program. As a result, they consistently performed FAR better than industry average. The employees would do nearly anything to ensure the mill keep running and making money, because they knew it meant more money in their pocket. It's hard to quantify, but I'm willing to bet that if PS is significantly reduced, the incentive among all employees to maximize profit diminishes, and profits go down. The skin you have in the game, the harder you work.

2nd point. Yes profits will fluctuate up and down. If another 2008 downturn occurs, PS may go to zero. In that same scenario, history shows that the Company will come to the table and ask/demand pay cuts to weather the storm. In the past, when we took pay rate cuts, how many years after profits returned did it take to get the pay rates back? In those negotiations, what other concessions did the Company ask for in return? With PS, the "pay increase" is immediate when profits return and it costs nothing in return.

Just some thoughts, looking forward to seeing the TA.

Yeah, that was out of line, sorry about that. Coffee hadn't kicked in yet.

You're not going to get anything better from the NMB unless you make it clear to them that you have been reasonable and bargaining in good faith from the beginning. Acting prematurely not only reduces what is possible in two-way deals, but improves the company's position in mediation.

Tomorrow we get actual numbers, and a much clearer choice.

Your first point is a good one. But its management's job to run the airline.

As to your second point, the only way we see concessions is if we are facing bankruptcy. Smaller (or no) profits don't result in concessions, but they do result in immediate loss of profit sharing income.

If we are facing (or in) bankruptcy, I'd much prefer our concession discussion start from a baseline of higher wages.

Another note about profit sharing in terms of what it's worth. A lot of the initiatives Delta had when coming out of BK received a good chunk of money up until this point (billion dollar terminals, billion dollar customer support training for frontline employees, paying down debt- which could soon hit zero and be a massive reduction in interest payments, etc). The debt and misc items that needed to be serviced will drop dramatically, increasing profits.

Some (including our union) have been pushing a campaign of "at risk" profit sharing with the notion we should discount it for so called "sure thing pay" (there is no such thing btw). It may well be the other way around....without the drag of above mentioned items, profits may be ready for a big leap into the stratosphere. $1 profit sharing today may actually be worth $5 tomorrow. Yet we've got folks trying to sell it at a discount. What will they say 2 years from now when everybody realizes we got snookered? "We didn't see profits getting to that level and your union got you a big win (insert carefully cultivated data that leaves opposing data out).

It abrogates seniority. Plain and simple. Questions?

This is correct. My belief, they want everybody to bury their heads and not get riled up while they take a week to craft the marketing campaign that they will shock and aw "squeaky wheels" that don't have time to truly analyze what is being said, then rush to a vote. For this strategy to work most effectively they need all the councils regurgitating the same talking points, "this is a HUGE win"! That's why are are seeing the early marginalization of councils that aren't willing to just go along for the ride because the boss man said so.

I want to say publicly I am very thankful for those individuals willing to stand up for what they believe in and diligently represent this pilot group- even at the cost of having cheap shots thrown their way by anonymous union insiders who are obviously lacking in fortitude or character. If 2012 is any measure, we know the powerful insiders will try to drag any that disagree with them through the mud in an attempt to diminish credibility. When I read the well articulated, signed letters from C1 and C20 I feel truth and it gives me hope. When I read the unsigned letter from unknowns in our union it smells heavily of BS.

And since there exists a timeline that is spelled out, just how do you believe this will be done?

F ear. U ncertainty. D oubt


What if. What if. What if.

You can play that all day long. Life is rife with risk. RA could have a stroke tomorrow, you could have an heart attack this afternoon.

Just getting out of bed is risky, but we do it every day.

We are paid as professional aviators to manage risk.

Nice try on the attempts to appeal to that conditioned nature of our professional lives.

My favorite is labeling profit sharing to the negative connotative term "at risk pay." Industrial psychology at its best.

I reject that term and prefer the much more appropriate and accurate variable pay.

And it has only been 5 years or so since we spent capital to negotiate it back.. And there were quids for it as well. Seems really strange to pay for it twice.