A 50% pay cut requires a 100% pay increase to get to even.

If you are happy hitting 11 year old rates with no inflation, vote yes.

We magically used block hours to get management in balance and lose hundreds of Widebody jobs. For this we got a nickel in per diem.

We screwed all the first officers by taking away their ability to bid all available trips. For this we got 15 minutes of vacation.

This TA has no defense. There was no negotiation, just complete surrender.

I wouldn't go that far as to say (and I think you meant) "radical". There are a couple elephants that I can't get behind with the knowledge I have at this point. The block hour thing, and the profit sharing change. That is a healthy jump from 2.5 to 6 billion. Why not just make it 10 so it will be sure to be out of reach or at least minimal in it's benefit to us?

And I am so glad that ya'll are still in love with the "productivity" pay argument. Them pigeons are coming home to roost now ain't they? It's been idiocy for years and it is even more so now. Enjoy, and congratulations to the 200 guys that are at the top of the heap.

NY guys: Write to Tom and Chris. I just did and got an immediate response.

Early is great if you get a fair deal.

We traded a dollar for .98 cents and a pat on the head.

Is SEA still not a hub and is LAX carved out wrt the Alaska Marketing Agreement?


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Time is irrelevant to the process. Long and drawn out sucks worse if you get the same deal. That door swings both ways. Leave that out of your tirades if you want a little more credibility. Or don't. I really don't care.

No specifics on bases or airplanes. Here are the details on virtual basing that I copied down from the NC's PowerPoint yesterday morning:

Virtual Base MOU:

- Can be 6 months per position per base
- Must be in the lower 48
- Can not be in an existing pilot base

Pilots bid in via system wide AE, and have to already be qual'd in the position. Positive Space travel to from the base at the beginning and end of the bid period. Ocean Crossing (see my post above regarding the PWA definition of Ocean Crossing in 2.A.182) is prohibited on first leg of rotation from virtual base and from existing pilot base.

As a local ATL guy, I'm not sure if I'm thrilled about this one. If I lived in one of the cities where they want to run these things (MCO, BOS, LAS and DFW were being tossed around...) I might think differently. Supposedly the "time" will have to be pulled from the bases where the pilots come...so if all SEA7ERB's take the LAS7ERB slots, it supposedly would only be a drawdown in SEA and not the other ER bases just as a hypothetical. Obviously there would be a mix of guys coming from all over.

Unless I missed it, the answer to both questions is no.

That's productive. :rolleyes:

Is it possible to discuss the issues without all the hyperbole and poo throwing?

One dragon at a time.

Pay. If you were fNW is actually more than inflation adjusted. On average you would be up 21% from high watermark pay rates.

fDelta you are up about 3% from c2k without profit sharing.

Jerry,

Please show the numbers for your dollar to 98 cent conversion. I sat through the entire presentation yesterday. While the pay/profit sharing is not eye-watering, it is disingenuous to make that claim....unless you can show the math.

Yes, the TA trades several QOL items that I'm not sure we want to entertain (as an FO, the repercussions of 23G5 for all but the most senior FO's is the top of the list for me) BUT I was left with no doubt that we do come out ahead financially under the TA, and it isn't an insignificant amount.

I'm doing what I can to learn as much about the deal as I can, so I will be prepared to make a decision based on facts (not emotion or rhetoric) IF the reps even send it out. This should be quite a show this afternoon.