Details on Delta TA
06-12-2015 | 06:19 AM
#7951
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
Unless the automatic yes voters can be reached.
That's going to be the key in this battle. There are unfortunately a large number of Delta pilots who don't attend road shows, who certainly don't read this forum and who are barely aware that we have a new contract, let alone know what's in it.
They have busy lives and don't want to be bothered. Union politics bores them.
They figure they pay a lot of dues to ALPA to worry about all that stuff and they will do whatever ALPA recommends.
Those are the guys who have to be reached.
That's going to be the key in this battle. There are unfortunately a large number of Delta pilots who don't attend road shows, who certainly don't read this forum and who are barely aware that we have a new contract, let alone know what's in it.
They have busy lives and don't want to be bothered. Union politics bores them.
They figure they pay a lot of dues to ALPA to worry about all that stuff and they will do whatever ALPA recommends.
Those are the guys who have to be reached.
06-12-2015 | 06:25 AM
#7953
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 367
Likes: 0
Our real leverage here is, when we vote this POS down, and we tell Wall Street that by sending us the turd, Richard Anderson put Labor Risk right back on the table. We will enjoy cashing our 20% profit sharing checks, enjoy our sick leave, enjoy our LCA trip drops, green slips, and all the other bennies he wanted us to give up, and all we lose is one 8% raise.
That's it.
That's all you lose.
Remember, the second raise, the 6% in Jan, is PAID FOR BY REDUCING OUR PROFIT SHARING! That's not a RAISE, that's a Swap. And you are giving up concessions in ever other area to get that 8%.
The second two 3% raises are barely going to keep up with inflation, and again, you have given up PROFIT SHARING AND CONCESSIONS to get that.
You F/O's ask yourselves if giving up 75% of the IOE trips drops is worth a 3% raise...
Not in my book, and I'm not even an F/O! That concession alone might keep you sitting in a lower paying seat a year or two longer, as fewer F/O's will be required in EVERY category, all the way up to the 777.
What's the pay differential from the right seat of the MD88 to the 767?
More than 3% I'll bet!
That's it.
That's all you lose.
Remember, the second raise, the 6% in Jan, is PAID FOR BY REDUCING OUR PROFIT SHARING! That's not a RAISE, that's a Swap. And you are giving up concessions in ever other area to get that 8%.
The second two 3% raises are barely going to keep up with inflation, and again, you have given up PROFIT SHARING AND CONCESSIONS to get that.
You F/O's ask yourselves if giving up 75% of the IOE trips drops is worth a 3% raise...
Not in my book, and I'm not even an F/O! That concession alone might keep you sitting in a lower paying seat a year or two longer, as fewer F/O's will be required in EVERY category, all the way up to the 777.
What's the pay differential from the right seat of the MD88 to the 767?
More than 3% I'll bet!
06-12-2015 | 06:31 AM
#7954
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: 7ERB, no M88, no 7ER, no A320, NEXT!
A quick list of the things we said we were going to ask for in our opener, that we did not get. This is by no means comprehensive. My favorite is we said we were going to try to improve new hire training freeze. It has doubled in the TA.
Why do I get the feeling that our TA is the companies opener...
TA failures as compared to opener
Define SEA as hub
Define flight pay as beginning with door close.
Increase international pay.
Establish holiday pay
Establish night pay
Establish ground pay
Establish MED pay
Provide pay guarantee for all pilots removed for fatigue
Require a higher minimum number (or percentage) of weeks in each vacation month and require that such allocation remains fixed throughout the vacation year
Provide increased access to the best coach seat available for domestic deadhead
Improve reserve X-day provisions
Improve the maximum contractual duty day
Improve ADG
Improve trip and duty rigs
Improve Death in Immediate Family provisions
Improve Crew Rest Facility language
Improve category freeze for new hire pilots
Codify “Unable to Commute” policy within the PWA
Establish ability for next day swaps
Establish jetway trades
Provide positive space travel benefits
Reduce active and retiree pilot medical premiums
Incorporate an HSA (or HRA) plan into the PWA
Establish a Retiree Medical Account for use by retirees to cover retiree health costs
Why do I get the feeling that our TA is the companies opener...
TA failures as compared to opener
Define SEA as hub
Define flight pay as beginning with door close.
Increase international pay.
Establish holiday pay
Establish night pay
Establish ground pay
Establish MED pay
Provide pay guarantee for all pilots removed for fatigue
Require a higher minimum number (or percentage) of weeks in each vacation month and require that such allocation remains fixed throughout the vacation year
Provide increased access to the best coach seat available for domestic deadhead
Improve reserve X-day provisions
Improve the maximum contractual duty day
Improve ADG
Improve trip and duty rigs
Improve Death in Immediate Family provisions
Improve Crew Rest Facility language
Improve category freeze for new hire pilots
Codify “Unable to Commute” policy within the PWA
Establish ability for next day swaps
Establish jetway trades
Provide positive space travel benefits
Reduce active and retiree pilot medical premiums
Incorporate an HSA (or HRA) plan into the PWA
Establish a Retiree Medical Account for use by retirees to cover retiree health costs
06-12-2015 | 06:31 AM
#7955
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Likes: 0
I'd rather live indefinitely under our current contract than under this giant POS TA ever.
The last time I was this disappointed was letter 51.
At least we were in the BK process, but this TA was reached in the most profitable history of the airline -ever! My printer tray has had a DPA card on it for the last 24 hours.
After I see the lounge dog and pony show, I honestly will know for sure if I'm going to be stamping and posting it. Never thought I would ever do something like this, but here I stand.
The last time I was this disappointed was letter 51.
At least we were in the BK process, but this TA was reached in the most profitable history of the airline -ever! My printer tray has had a DPA card on it for the last 24 hours.
After I see the lounge dog and pony show, I honestly will know for sure if I'm going to be stamping and posting it. Never thought I would ever do something like this, but here I stand.
06-12-2015 | 06:32 AM
#7956
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 112
Imagine if we had a union that could put some fancy graphics together to show THIS instead of misleading pay comparisons to other crappy contracts.
06-12-2015 | 06:36 AM
#7957
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
Our real leverage here is, when we vote this POS down, and we tell Wall Street that by sending us the turd, Richard Anderson put Labor Risk right back on the table. We will enjoy cashing our 20% profit sharing checks, enjoy our sick leave, enjoy our LCA trip drops, green slips, and all the other bennies he wanted us to give up, and all we lose is one 8% raise.
That's it.
That's all you lose.
Remember, the second raise, the 6% in Jan, is PAID FOR BY REDUCING OUR PROFIT SHARING! That's not a RAISE, that's a Swap. And you are giving up concessions in ever other area to get that 8%.
The second two 3% raises are barely going to keep up with inflation, and again, you have given up PROFIT SHARING AND CONCESSIONS to get that.
You F/O's ask yourselves if giving up 75% of the IOE trips drops is worth a 3% raise...
Not in my book, and I'm not even an F/O! That concession alone might keep you sitting in a lower paying seat a year or two longer, as fewer F/O's will be required in EVERY category, all the way up to the 777.
What's the pay differential from the right seat of the MD88 to the 767?
More than 3% I'll bet!
That's it.
That's all you lose.
Remember, the second raise, the 6% in Jan, is PAID FOR BY REDUCING OUR PROFIT SHARING! That's not a RAISE, that's a Swap. And you are giving up concessions in ever other area to get that 8%.
The second two 3% raises are barely going to keep up with inflation, and again, you have given up PROFIT SHARING AND CONCESSIONS to get that.
You F/O's ask yourselves if giving up 75% of the IOE trips drops is worth a 3% raise...
Not in my book, and I'm not even an F/O! That concession alone might keep you sitting in a lower paying seat a year or two longer, as fewer F/O's will be required in EVERY category, all the way up to the 777.
What's the pay differential from the right seat of the MD88 to the 767?
More than 3% I'll bet!
Now how do we get information like that out beyond APC?
That's the key to this fight.
ALPA and management have big budgets devoted to getting a yes vote.
How can the dissenters compete with that?
06-12-2015 | 06:43 AM
#7958
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
I'd rather live indefinitely under our current contract than under this giant POS TA ever.
The last time I was this disappointed was letter 51.
At least we were in the BK process, but this TA was reached in the most profitable history of the airline -ever! My printer tray has had a DPA card on it for the last 24 hours.
After I see the lounge dog and pony show, I honestly will know for sure if I'm going to be stamping and posting it. Never thought I would ever do something like this, but here I stand.
The last time I was this disappointed was letter 51.
At least we were in the BK process, but this TA was reached in the most profitable history of the airline -ever! My printer tray has had a DPA card on it for the last 24 hours.
After I see the lounge dog and pony show, I honestly will know for sure if I'm going to be stamping and posting it. Never thought I would ever do something like this, but here I stand.
THE SAME GUY! Initials are RH.
He was involved in LOA 51 too, and a former CVG rep. He's always been an "Appeasement" guy. He was recently getting paid DALPA trip drops while 'consulting' for UAL on their SLI.
Capitulate early, capitulate often, keep the Delta money train rolling.
His brother is a financial guy, I wonder how many shares of Delta Stock they both own.
That would be the only rational explanation for this POS TA.
If our MEC cannot deliver us something BETTER than this, I think we do need to clean house.
Have you read the letter from the NYC LEC Chairman yet? Great letter.
We need to install him as MEC Chairman tomorrow!
06-12-2015 | 06:46 AM
#7959
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Go to the Dalpa website and read section 14G of the sick leave. This is very bad, you might go and talk to the Vice President of flight operations if they want you to! Holy crap, who were our negotiators. This sucks. Please read thru this DOC. THINGS IN RED OUR THE CHANGES. AND ITS NOT GOOD.
06-12-2015 | 06:47 AM
#7960
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Talk it up in the pilot lounges and on the layovers, but do NOT get into a heated discussion in the cockpit, we don't need to wind up on CNN while we are trying to be paid at the top of the industry.
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