Details on Delta TA
06-16-2015 | 08:54 PM
#9441
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
The concessions are totally in the eye of the beholder gentlemen. And everyone has their own take. This is all my opinion.
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
06-16-2015 | 09:01 PM
#9443
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,971
Likes: 0
From: Kickin’ Back
The concessions are totally in the eye of the beholder gentlemen. And everyone has their own take. This is all my opinion.
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
By the way, does not "designee" in the contractual language mean it could be a third party?
Denny
06-16-2015 | 09:03 PM
#9444
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Alpas take? Ask the NC at a road show. That's my answer because I don't know. I think their answer would be similar.
And I agree with that language issue. And have questions into a few people on it. Expect something tomorrow.
Thanks Denny.
06-16-2015 | 09:06 PM
#9445
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
The concessions are totally in the eye of the beholder gentlemen. And everyone has their own take. This is all my opinion.
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
Will they take an objective stance in the NNs and stop advising us to vote yes?
Will they show the higher math rather than just scratch the surface on the LCA trip pull deal?
I appreciate you, yourself acknowledging that these are concessions, to be clear.
I agree on your take on the JV and sick.
06-16-2015 | 09:07 PM
#9446
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
The concessions are totally in the eye of the beholder gentlemen. And everyone has their own take. This is all my opinion.
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
Deleted because I couldn't clearly convey.
These are huge concessions. I'll take c12.
06-16-2015 | 09:10 PM
#9447
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Prof,
I think you should start and end you opinion piece with:
In the immediate (short) term.
I am going to guess you were on property for "a contract is a contract." If the language isn't specific and clear in the TA, that in and of itself is reason enough for a no. In various scenarios, I easily see "draconian" next to concessions.
Sick isn't a giveback, it is in effect sacrificing contract-bound employees (us) on the alter of at-will.
Why do we pay dues? Do we have a union?
I think you should start and end you opinion piece with:
In the immediate (short) term.
I am going to guess you were on property for "a contract is a contract." If the language isn't specific and clear in the TA, that in and of itself is reason enough for a no. In various scenarios, I easily see "draconian" next to concessions.
Sick isn't a giveback, it is in effect sacrificing contract-bound employees (us) on the alter of at-will.
Why do we pay dues? Do we have a union?
Also good points and nobody is going to argue with you (ok I'm not) that language needs to be ironclad.
Please keep engaged and hopefully we can get contract language solidified as well.
I'm not a lawyer or contract admin expert, I'm forwarding for action and response.
The experts on all this will be at the road shows.
Thanks for the response.
06-16-2015 | 09:10 PM
#9448
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
The concessions are totally in the eye of the beholder gentlemen. And everyone has their own take. This is all my opinion.
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
The JV is a giveback for sure. But WB seats are protected globally by our production balance. Plus there is downside protection by going to a block hour ratio. And we remove us UK flying as well.
Then I would also say that OE is a giveback.
Sick is a giveback in verification, but since the benefit hasn't changed in sick leave time, tougher to assess the impact monetarily. But definitely a concession.
Again. My take. Not alpas
OK,
So we got the JV, OE, and sick leave - just your personal take. Thanks. By the way I agree with your list, although it is incomplete.
Any chance you can run it up the chain of command and see what DALPAs official position on concessions is?
The reason I ask is that for the last six months I have been hearing from my union, DALPA, that all negotiations require both sides to give and take.
Yet strangely enough all of their official correspondence omits any reference to any concessions so I am curious if their actual position is that there are no concessions.
Thanks again for volunteering.
Scoop
06-16-2015 | 09:14 PM
#9449
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Scoop. Your points have been my own and LEC reps points. Reps that voted yes and no.
There have been losses.
And as I said early on in this, everyone has to assess how those losses stack up against the gains for themselves and vote.
This isn't a fun contract to assess.
I know everyone here is smart enough to asses what is a giveback and what is a gain.
Thanks Scoop.
There have been losses.
And as I said early on in this, everyone has to assess how those losses stack up against the gains for themselves and vote.
This isn't a fun contract to assess.
I know everyone here is smart enough to asses what is a giveback and what is a gain.
Thanks Scoop.
06-16-2015 | 09:23 PM
#9450
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
FTB,
This is the first time you have ever missed the big picture. All delta employees' profit sharing will be changed if we vote this in. This entire TA thing actually saves the company $100M. (I don't know why ALPA crack money guys didn't tell us that). Hey look the delta employees (aka profit centers) are buying their company more planes. (Which will be flown by the lowest bidder in delta colors cause the MEC chairman said they could).
Damn, why do I feel like this is how the former Kimberly Clark corporate flight department (Midwest express) arm of Alpa worked just prior to the airline shutting down.
Handshakes and back slaps all around.
This is the first time you have ever missed the big picture. All delta employees' profit sharing will be changed if we vote this in. This entire TA thing actually saves the company $100M. (I don't know why ALPA crack money guys didn't tell us that). Hey look the delta employees (aka profit centers) are buying their company more planes. (Which will be flown by the lowest bidder in delta colors cause the MEC chairman said they could).
Damn, why do I feel like this is how the former Kimberly Clark corporate flight department (Midwest express) arm of Alpa worked just prior to the airline shutting down.
Handshakes and back slaps all around.
As to the $100M that Credit Susie says this TA saves the company, they seemed to only focus on our cost increase and the PS saved. But I didn't really understand, is that PS savings from all employees or just the pilots alone. If it's just the pilots, then the PS savings are even larger. Unless that was already baked in.
Funny how they got their math done so fast.
And I don't know but did Credit Susie take into account section 1, 23, 14 savings? It's an even bigger savings.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
