Why I'm Voting Yes.
06-22-2015 | 09:57 AM
#121
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
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If, during any consecutive rolling 18-month period, the Company grants an across-the- board increase in base pay rates to non-pilot U.S.-based workgroups covering 30% or more of its non-pilot U.S.-based workforce, then a review of pilot composite hourly rates will be triggered.
/////////
2 things to look at:
1. trigger to review pilot pay rates (other employee raises)
2. if triggered, how much do we raise pilot rates? (match lower of employee raises or UAL/AMR raise using contract formula).
Does anyone really think the company can sit back in record profits and not give any of its employee groups a raise? The company needs to give raises to the FA to entice them not to unionize; at least, that's what they've done in the past. (Whether the FA vote to unionize is up to them; I'm just saying management has typically sweetened things for non-union employees whenever it looked like it was getting close to unionize, and the FA union is gearing up for next spring).
3.B.4. was included in C2012 as a protection in case we didn't get a new contract on the amendable date for whatever reason. Compare 8/.26/3/3 with new scope, sick leave and work rule changes to 3/3/3/3 under current contract. Sure, 3/3/3/3 is not guaranteed, but it's very unlikely to go 0/0/0/0.
Last edited by PigeonF16; 06-22-2015 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Added information
06-22-2015 | 10:44 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,869
Likes: 188
We used to get 7 weeks. The non contracts was unilaterally restored post bk...and when we asked about the stated 'intent' on the part of the company to include pilots in any vacation restoration....... we were told "a contract is a contract".
Our recovery was NOT a no cost restoration as with the non contract....it came at a cost that was incorporated in the balance of our pwa......as clearly illustrated when dalpa always asks....."what are you willing to give up to get that".
Our recovery was NOT a no cost restoration as with the non contract....it came at a cost that was incorporated in the balance of our pwa......as clearly illustrated when dalpa always asks....."what are you willing to give up to get that".
06-22-2015 | 04:04 PM
#123
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,467
Likes: 0
From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Bender heres some PS math that was done by a fellow facebooker... see the picture for the table with the pay comparison...
"The PTIX for 2014 was $6.75B which resulted in a PS pool for all employees of $1.1B This level of PS netted each employee a payment of 16.58% of income. Under the terms of the TA, the PS pool would have been reduced by $350M due to the new trigger and another reduction of $46M due to the new definition of PTIX, resulting in a total PS payout of $704M. End result: each employee would have received 36% less in their payout - 10.61% of income instead of 16.58%.
Chart Assumptions:
- Pay Rates per TA, 12-year 737 Captain
- “Income” = (Pay Rate) * (1,000) — Per PWA Section 3.A.1, PS is based on annual income not including bonuses, profit sharing, shared rewards, or expenses.
- DL total annual payroll unchanged
- All PS payouts based on 2014 PTIX***
***Note: Both Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian have publicly stated they expect DL profits to be as good as or better than 2014 in years 2015 and beyond, hence assumption is not unrealistic.
Conclusion: The proposed changes to Profit Sharing are a bad deal
for all Delta pilots. A really bad deal."
"The PTIX for 2014 was $6.75B which resulted in a PS pool for all employees of $1.1B This level of PS netted each employee a payment of 16.58% of income. Under the terms of the TA, the PS pool would have been reduced by $350M due to the new trigger and another reduction of $46M due to the new definition of PTIX, resulting in a total PS payout of $704M. End result: each employee would have received 36% less in their payout - 10.61% of income instead of 16.58%.
Chart Assumptions:
- Pay Rates per TA, 12-year 737 Captain
- “Income” = (Pay Rate) * (1,000) — Per PWA Section 3.A.1, PS is based on annual income not including bonuses, profit sharing, shared rewards, or expenses.
- DL total annual payroll unchanged
- All PS payouts based on 2014 PTIX***
***Note: Both Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian have publicly stated they expect DL profits to be as good as or better than 2014 in years 2015 and beyond, hence assumption is not unrealistic.
Conclusion: The proposed changes to Profit Sharing are a bad deal
for all Delta pilots. A really bad deal."
06-22-2015 | 04:09 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
I dunno, I was just spitballing. Maybe the first three weeks pay 5/day and the next 3 only pay 4 or something like that. Get more up front so to speak.
06-22-2015 | 04:13 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
Bender heres some PS math that was done by a fellow facebooker... see the picture for the table with the pay comparison...
"The PTIX for 2014 was $6.75B which resulted in a PS pool for all employees of $1.1B This level of PS netted each employee a payment of 16.58% of income. Under the terms of the TA, the PS pool would have been reduced by $350M due to the new trigger and another reduction of $46M due to the new definition of PTIX, resulting in a total PS payout of $704M. End result: each employee would have received 36% less in their payout - 10.61% of income instead of 16.58%.
Chart Assumptions:
- Pay Rates per TA, 12-year 737 Captain
- “Income” = (Pay Rate) * (1,000) — Per PWA Section 3.A.1, PS is based on annual income not including bonuses, profit sharing, shared rewards, or expenses.
- DL total annual payroll unchanged
- All PS payouts based on 2014 PTIX***
***Note: Both Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian have publicly stated they expect DL profits to be as good as or better than 2014 in years 2015 and beyond, hence assumption is not unrealistic.
Conclusion: The proposed changes to Profit Sharing are a bad deal
for all Delta pilots. A really bad deal."
"The PTIX for 2014 was $6.75B which resulted in a PS pool for all employees of $1.1B This level of PS netted each employee a payment of 16.58% of income. Under the terms of the TA, the PS pool would have been reduced by $350M due to the new trigger and another reduction of $46M due to the new definition of PTIX, resulting in a total PS payout of $704M. End result: each employee would have received 36% less in their payout - 10.61% of income instead of 16.58%.
Chart Assumptions:
- Pay Rates per TA, 12-year 737 Captain
- “Income” = (Pay Rate) * (1,000) — Per PWA Section 3.A.1, PS is based on annual income not including bonuses, profit sharing, shared rewards, or expenses.
- DL total annual payroll unchanged
- All PS payouts based on 2014 PTIX***
***Note: Both Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian have publicly stated they expect DL profits to be as good as or better than 2014 in years 2015 and beyond, hence assumption is not unrealistic.
Conclusion: The proposed changes to Profit Sharing are a bad deal
for all Delta pilots. A really bad deal."
06-22-2015 | 04:28 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Great information, thanks. I have been emailing my reps quite a bit about the lack of information being given out on this topic.
31 Dec 2015 would still trigger a raise. It's any time during a rolling 18-month period. Here's the cut and paste from 3.B.4.
/////////
If, during any consecutive rolling 18-month period, the Company grants an across-the- board increase in base pay rates to non-pilot U.S.-based workgroups covering 30% or more of its non-pilot U.S.-based workforce, then a review of pilot composite hourly rates will be triggered.
/////////
2 things to look at:
1. trigger to review pilot pay rates (other employee raises)
2. if triggered, how much do we raise pilot rates? (match lower of employee raises or UAL/AMR raise using contract formula).
Does anyone really think the company can sit back in record profits and not give any of its employee groups a raise? The company needs to give raises to the FA to entice them not to unionize; at least, that's what they've done in the past. (Whether the FA vote to unionize is up to them; I'm just saying management has typically sweetened things for non-union employees whenever it looked like it was getting close to unionize, and the FA union is gearing up for next spring).
3.B.4. was included in C2012 as a protection in case we didn't get a new contract on the amendable date for whatever reason. Compare 8/.26/3/3 with new scope, sick leave and work rule changes to 3/3/3/3 under current contract. Sure, 3/3/3/3 is not guaranteed, but it's very unlikely to go 0/0/0/0.
/////////
If, during any consecutive rolling 18-month period, the Company grants an across-the- board increase in base pay rates to non-pilot U.S.-based workgroups covering 30% or more of its non-pilot U.S.-based workforce, then a review of pilot composite hourly rates will be triggered.
/////////
2 things to look at:
1. trigger to review pilot pay rates (other employee raises)
2. if triggered, how much do we raise pilot rates? (match lower of employee raises or UAL/AMR raise using contract formula).
Does anyone really think the company can sit back in record profits and not give any of its employee groups a raise? The company needs to give raises to the FA to entice them not to unionize; at least, that's what they've done in the past. (Whether the FA vote to unionize is up to them; I'm just saying management has typically sweetened things for non-union employees whenever it looked like it was getting close to unionize, and the FA union is gearing up for next spring).
3.B.4. was included in C2012 as a protection in case we didn't get a new contract on the amendable date for whatever reason. Compare 8/.26/3/3 with new scope, sick leave and work rule changes to 3/3/3/3 under current contract. Sure, 3/3/3/3 is not guaranteed, but it's very unlikely to go 0/0/0/0.
06-22-2015 | 06:04 PM
#127
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Co pilot
Bender heres some PS math that was done by a fellow facebooker... see the picture for the table with the pay comparison...
"The PTIX for 2014 was $6.75B which resulted in a PS pool for all employees of $1.1B This level of PS netted each employee a payment of 16.58% of income. Under the terms of the TA, the PS pool would have been reduced by $350M due to the new trigger and another reduction of $46M due to the new definition of PTIX, resulting in a total PS payout of $704M. End result: each employee would have received 36% less in their payout - 10.61% of income instead of 16.58%.
Chart Assumptions:
- Pay Rates per TA, 12-year 737 Captain
- “Income” = (Pay Rate) * (1,000) — Per PWA Section 3.A.1, PS is based on annual income not including bonuses, profit sharing, shared rewards, or expenses.
- DL total annual payroll unchanged
- All PS payouts based on 2014 PTIX***
***Note: Both Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian have publicly stated they expect DL profits to be as good as or better than 2014 in years 2015 and beyond, hence assumption is not unrealistic.
Conclusion: The proposed changes to Profit Sharing are a bad deal
for all Delta pilots. A really bad deal."
"The PTIX for 2014 was $6.75B which resulted in a PS pool for all employees of $1.1B This level of PS netted each employee a payment of 16.58% of income. Under the terms of the TA, the PS pool would have been reduced by $350M due to the new trigger and another reduction of $46M due to the new definition of PTIX, resulting in a total PS payout of $704M. End result: each employee would have received 36% less in their payout - 10.61% of income instead of 16.58%.
Chart Assumptions:
- Pay Rates per TA, 12-year 737 Captain
- “Income” = (Pay Rate) * (1,000) — Per PWA Section 3.A.1, PS is based on annual income not including bonuses, profit sharing, shared rewards, or expenses.
- DL total annual payroll unchanged
- All PS payouts based on 2014 PTIX***
***Note: Both Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian have publicly stated they expect DL profits to be as good as or better than 2014 in years 2015 and beyond, hence assumption is not unrealistic.
Conclusion: The proposed changes to Profit Sharing are a bad deal
for all Delta pilots. A really bad deal."
Last edited by Woofers; 06-22-2015 at 06:41 PM.
06-22-2015 | 06:27 PM
#129
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Your conclusion relies on three major tenants: First, you take what Richard Anderson says as the gospel. Second, you take what Ed Bastain says as the gospel. Third, that Delta will remain profitable for the next three years. Really? You believe all three? Awesome. I have some great Florida property that I would like you to invest in. No , you don't have to look at it. Just trust me.
Tenets, they're different from tenants, but only slightly.
Heiko would disagree with your contention too. But, don't let that get in the way of your SEC lawsuit against the Delta management head shed.
06-22-2015 | 06:41 PM
#130
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Your conclusion relies on three major tenants: First, you take what Richard Anderson says as the gospel. Second, you take what Ed Bastain says as the gospel. Third, that Delta will remain profitable for the next three years. Really? You believe all three? Awesome. I have some great Florida property that I would like you to invest in. No , you don't have to look at it. Just trust me.
Carl
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