Not sure what I'm saying goodbye to except smaller compensation.

Under no mathematical situation can C2012 exceed C2015. I'm pretty sure even with WORSE LCA language definitely United and maybe AA still have premium trips so Greenslips will still be around. I'm pretty sure LCA trip drops aren't going to stop mid afternoon thunderstorms from sitting on top of KATL

 

On the trip I just finished, we ran across a couple of different airline crews that are under ALPA. They even know this TA sucks and hope we vote it down. Our guys need to quit drinking the DALPA Kool Aid, grow a pair and send this back!

 

Shouldn't "No" voters go to the roadshows and try to talk some sense into the fence-sitters? This vote will probably be decided by "wafflers" who need some encouragement.

 

Wait!! I thought that profit sharing pocket had a hole in it Trip7. Do you know how big or small it is? Because if I can't count on it, how can I use it to pound my chest about rates being better than AA's??

 

I've been away from these "discussions" for about a week. Happy to see the same group of guys circle-jerking themselves into a frothing-at-the-mouth frenzy.

Which is exactly why this T/A is going to pass.

First, the naysayers are coming from such an emotional place, there's no upside in disagreeing in person, on the internet, etc. You no voters are hysterical, in both senses of the word. This thread is a case-in-point. It looks like SLC will overwhelmingly pass the T/A, you naysayers rushed to your keyboard to disparage the meeting. Next!

Second, all of the alleged horrible aspects that no voters are screaming about really amount to pretty much nothing for the average pilot. Most do not take the sick leave, LCA, or PS issues personally, nor see them as a loss.

Thirdly, feeling that we could have done much better has a shallow ring to most. Want to recall your rep because he has such a glamorous job? Then I propose that you offer to take his place, Einstein. After all, you guys are so much more knowledgeable and smart. But seriously, most thinking pilots see that if this is voted down, and we take serious hits to everything, those who opposed it most loudly will walk away in silent anonymity and not really be accountable for anything. Oops!

I'm finding there's a silent majority. Yes, the minority is loud, but has absolutely nothing to offer. Zero, zilch, nada. Given the outright emotional nature and knee-jerk disposition of the vehement NO voter, I think we have a pretty good indication of how the vote will go based on the number of NO votes on the DPA exit poll. That's it, folks. The total number of no votes, I'll even raise it 50% in the spirit of being a good sport. Don't forget to Vote!

 

The NO voters should be there. Another great communication tool is to stop by the DALPA concession stand any begin asking questions that fence sitters may not consider. I like to ask:

1) DALPA concedes that the 6% year one pay raise is offset by changing the profit sharing formula, how much additional is lost by the change in definition of PTIX?

2) Beyond the direct impact of OE trip pulls, is there also an indirect loss of QOL and pay because of FO block hour reduction?

3) In the conversion from EASK to BH, why did we set the bar so far below the current ratio? followed by.. Once we take delivery of the remaining 330s and park the 747s during this contract, we still have a smaller average fleet size than AF/KLM. Wouldn't EASK guarantee more flying for Delta than BH does AFTER we "up gauge"?

4) What is your opinion of the economic viability of 50 seat RJs? Won't the economy make them go away on their own?

5) I've heard a lot of good points from DALPA supporting the TA. Can you share a few of the reasons 8 members of the MEC voted NO?

6) The courts publish dissenting opinions on divided rulings, has DALPA considered publishing the letters from the LECs that have viewpoints counter to the TA?

 

Meanwhile

Login - Forum

 

Yeah,

I'll get right on it. Right after you compare our compensation including their defined benefit retirement.

OBTW - Management can put whatever AC on whatever legs they choose. The 900s start flying CONUS to Hawaii next year, the longest ETOPs overwater leg that exists. Are saying the 900s will not be capable of BOS over the pond? Or even JFK?

Scoop

 

Very well said! No voters have absolutely nothing to offer other than pure speculation. Do I think we deserve more? Yes. Do I think we will get more if we turn it down? No. There is a track record of that. What guys can't seem to understand is that our contract is based on what our peers in the industry are doing. And frankly they are doing nothing. American raised the bar slightly and we are going to be above them. The poster who said our contract is going to be worse than most if we pass this TA obviously hasn't looked closely at other carriers contracts. You can pick and choose certain areas that may be better, but as a whole ours will still be far superior. Turning this TA down is nothing more than a huge gamble. Just in pay, not including profit sharing this TA will be worth at least $120,000 over three years. Ask yourself this question - if someone handed you a briefcase of cash with $120,000 in it are you going to take it to the bank or throw it down on the craps table? That is what you are doing if you vote no.

 

This pretty much sums up my post, above. Are you kidding?

#1. You need to know how much profit DAL will make in 2016. No one knows that. #2. You want an ALPA rep to decide whether you will lose QOL?! One person's QOL is different than another's. Why there's one guy on this thread who has thousands of posts on these forums. He has no life, his quality will not be affected. Yours, on the other hand.... 3). By voting no, you will guarantee delivery of dozens of more widebodies, so you should vote no. 4). No. Evidently not. They are still out there. 5/6 This is not the court. However, those LEC's letters are everywhere, including this forum. They are not secret, and have been widely disseminated. Would ALPA be considered to have negotiated in good faith if they disseminate materials contrary to the success of said negotiations?