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Old 07-14-2015 | 04:59 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
Really? You are making that comparison?
It is a valid comparison for international flying.

We may not go out of business, but we will certainly not "own" the flying we cede in section 1.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 05:16 PM
  #62  
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Let's get this right. We don't need to be in a rush to put a little more lipstick on and call it OK. 1.E.9. needs to be a full MEC decision at the least, preferably MEMRAT. Scope needs to be enforceable and have consequential penalties, not just grieve it later. Small aircraft scope should let the RJ operators wither. The Embraer fleet can all come to mainline E170 through E195. Get the flying back first, then address the pay. Now is the time because those pilots can be absorbed with the current need.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 05:45 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by scambo1
If you can't see how that language change is a detriment then you are not capable of critical thought.
Well, then I guess you have all the answers. Excuse my ignorance. I'll sit back now and enjoy the meltdown.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 05:50 PM
  #64  
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One man's meltdown is another man's revolution. I'll be watching with you. Storm the Bastille!
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Old 07-14-2015 | 05:50 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
Well, then I guess you have all the answers. Excuse my ignorance. I'll sit back now and enjoy the meltdown.
I answered your question many times. Yet somehow you accuse me of anger and vitriol.

The meltdown...hmmmm.

DALPA didn't negotiate FOR the the pilots.

Since you are the self appointed rock thrower, maybe you can explain how N/A15 provided better protection, in your opinion.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 06:00 PM
  #66  
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"N/A 15."

That's a keeper.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 06:01 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by scambo1
I answered your question many times. Yet somehow you accuse me of anger and vitriol.

The meltdown...hmmmm.

DALPA didn't negotiate FOR the the pilots.

Since you are the self appointed rock thrower, maybe you can explain how N/A15 provided better protection, in your opinion.
The block hour protection makes sense. I just didn't agree with the immediate 4% giveback. If the JV partners do in fact start parking 747s, and there is little to make me believe they will not at some time because the 747 is a dying airframe, we lose on EASKs. If Alitalia leaves Skyteam, we have to downsize. If KAL leaves, we have to downsize. If we are flying block hours, we might have to cut flights, but not the SIZE of the airplanes, and since bigger pays more you should be really happy. The uptrend we are on will not last forever. The EASK metric has a hole in it and the logic to repair it was sound, but like I said, I didn't like the immediate giveback.

If we start losing flights when AF/KLM starts parking airframes, there will be a meltdown on here.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 06:02 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
Let's get this right. We don't need to be in a rush to put a little more lipstick on and call it OK. 1.E.9. needs to be a full MEC decision at the least, preferably MEMRAT. Scope needs to be enforceable and have consequential penalties, not just grieve it later. Small aircraft scope should let the RJ operators wither. The Embraer fleet can all come to mainline E170 through E195. Get the flying back first, then address the pay. Now is the time because those pilots can be absorbed with the current need.
What kind of penalty do you propose?
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Old 07-14-2015 | 06:05 PM
  #69  
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Hello? Is this thing on? (tap tap tap) Both metrics! Right now we have 2 or 3 new JVs being written. Get the language right. Protect our flying. The upside or expansion of the JV as a revenue tool is the issue.

The penalty needs to be monetarily untenable to the side violating. If we are seen as partners then this is not an unrealistic request. More ownership in the form of stock awards comes to mind. An increase in profit sharing to offset outsourcing would be good.
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Old 07-14-2015 | 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
Hello? Is this thing on? (tap tap tap) Both metrics! Right now we have 2 or 3 new JVs being written. Get the language right. Protect our flying. The upside or expansion of the JV as a revenue tool is the issue.
What PENALTY do you propose? And how are you going to force management to sign on to it?
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