Just to make sure everyone understands what purple is talking about, this is what happened. Pilots on long term disability at Delta were being paid 50% of their final average earnings. With the bankruptcy the average line pilot took a 42% cut in pay. No cuts were made to the LTD plan. Not one dime was taken. They drew full disability pay. There were as offsets to the bankruptcy cuts two main pots of money plus the MPP. The two pots of money had distribution formulas that tried to account for many varibles. Pilots drawing full LTD pay got reduced payments from those funds for several reasons. The chief reason was they took no cuts in the bankruptcy. Very few pilots return to the line from LTD. There were a few who did and were negatively impacted since they returned to work under the post chapter 11 contract. Timing determined the amount of impact.
There were multiple law suits filed over the distribution method as there will be every single time. One was from the LTD group. One was from some very senior pilots who felt the junior guys got to much ect...
All the lawsuits failed. None were dropped for statue of limitations. They were all filed almost immediately after the money was distributed.

 

"Very few pilots return to the line from LTD."

I'm not so sure about that. Cancer, heart attacks? Sure.

Tear an ACL, get diabetes, go to rehab, suffer a bout of depression, etc. There are many ailments out there that take awhile, but are not permanently disabling.

Don't think you can't be one of those that end up using LTD and DPMA. Or have to verify and/or release medical records. We all have that peril. Just saying.

 

Trust me, I am very aware of what happens on LTD. Historically however once a pilot goes on LTD his chances of coming back are in single digits. Take a look at the LTD list in Delta net. It's a lot bigger then most realize. A handful will come back each year.
It's also been implied in many threads that Delta tries to force people on to LTD. Nothing could be further from the truth. The company does everything possible to keep people off and assist in getting people back from LTD.

 

To further elaborate on SF, the method of distribution was a "silo system". One of the silos, or variables was LTD. If you were on LTD, you received nothing from one silo.

Now fast forward to the JV distribution model. Note that LTD is one of the variables in the metric.

While I was lucky enough to not be negatively affected by this metric, there are those that are unlucky. My opinion was this silo was immoral and unjust. I continue to believe this. No one will ever convince me otherwise. I'm not going to cast blame for this. But, it did raise my hackles when I realized DALPA had pulled this out of the closet and used it again.

Using this distribution method was intellectually lazy and morally reprehensible. Nothing like punishing the weakest amongst us. If it sounds familiar, it's because this is the same sort of thinking with our sick leave issues. I'm will willing to defend the sick, why isn't my union?

 

Well, now, sailingfun. Can you tell me what this means, then?

KENT GILLILAND v.AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL, et al., Case 1:07-cv-03082-TCB

Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever. You're credibility is under water.

 

silos. another alpa fiasco.

let me simplify the base silo objective......'take from many, to make some more whole'

and then age 65 came along.....and 'ooops'....sorry, we f'kd up guys'. again.

had the union simply distributed on a non subjective pro-rata basis, using accrued/earned benefit as the baseline.....there could have been no argument about it.

im certain the senior dz pilots voting no on this ta is in some measure, seasoned with a sense of the inequity of this history.

 

I am not dredging up a decade-old argument, but let's get real. NO MATTER WHAT the union did, including "simply distributing" as you claim, there would have ALWAYS been a faction who complained about it.

God could craft the money distribution and there would have been complaints. It is the nature of distributing a large amount of money. Why do you think estate attorneys will never be in the unemployment line?

 

I would expect a real "union" to err on the side of including as many of its members as possible.

Wouldn't you?

And although this happened several years ago, it's relevant today. The architect of the exclusionary "silos" plan is currently one of our negotiators.

 

Well I will agree that Delta and DALPA do everything they can to help guys get their medical certification back. Look no further than one of our pilots who had his leg amputated and is back flying.

Contact your DPAC chairman and ask him how many hundreds of Delta pilots that have been on LTD and are back. Not single digits. Nearly all.

Don't give the impression that LTD is mostly used by those who suffer grave illnesses and never come back. Not true. There are lots and lots and lots of situations that can put you on LTD. Usually for less than a year, but it is something we ALL can be affected by.

If you wanna know what I think, I think the company should pay for our DPMA.

 

Herk....i didnt say there would be no argument.....i suggested there 'could' be no (legal) argument....as the distribution model would be direct, not mathematically subjective, and equitable to the greatest number of members.

its in pilots dna to complain....so it is is expected. the argument is relevant today....because not only are some of the same faces involved, it is the same MO.

take from most....to benefit some. that is not what a labor union is supposed to be about. alpa escaped the loss in court on this one....but your dues have paid significant settlements for other cases of the same type of malfeasance perpetrated by 'the smartest pilots in the room'...