NC Resigns--Paging Heiko?
08-04-2015 | 12:16 PM
#31
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: 737 ATL
I join you in thanking them for their service.
The negotiators aren't the main problem however. We have to get MEC reps who are willing to say no to Richard Anderson. We have to get past Moakism and "constructive engagement". For the last several years its only the union that has been constructive. Management has not reciprocated.
The game has changed.
If we want a better deal we are going to have to put labor risk back on the table.
The 11 "yes" reps are never going to do that. Its not in their DNA.
Moakism is over. The pilots rejected it 65-35.
I don't think Anderson and Bastian thought the Delta pilots had it in us to pick a fight.
They were wrong.
Now we need some reps who are willing to throw a punch.
08-04-2015 | 12:30 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 357
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From: CA
Heiko is a smart and experienced negotiator who is obviously a leading candidate. However, if I were in a position to put together and vote for a NC I would have to have assurances from Heiko and any other candidates they would be committed to and adhere to a strategy and commitment to achieve a TA without sacrificing additional concessions other than those agreed to by the MEC beforehand. And the only one that I think would pass muster at this point is a seat lock of 2 years for new hires. Other than that--nada. When asked for more just show the benefits gained from massive concessions given in the past and the failure of the company to get our inflation adjusted pay rates back to where they were over a decade ago. Include the loss of the DB plan.
During C2012 we were making record profits and still we made concessions. Why would a leopard change his spots? Yes, we're in a better position this time around, but without an assurance that would convince us of his not repeating history why and how could we trust Heiko to not make major concessions?
When I spoke to Heiko prior to the C12 TA vote I asked him why 88/90 pay was not brought up to A320 pay he answered with, "No one asked for it in the survey." I'm not saying he told me an untruth (I didn't put that in my survey response), but I spoke to about five MD88 captains who said they did. And when I asked how much giving up ALV+15 was worth in dollars I got a non-answer. Still he's capable, but obviously not overly impressive, IMHO.
Barring the hiring of professional negotiators which would deliver the best results, I'd say we could do a lot worse than Heiko, but hopefully we can do a lot better.
During C2012 we were making record profits and still we made concessions. Why would a leopard change his spots? Yes, we're in a better position this time around, but without an assurance that would convince us of his not repeating history why and how could we trust Heiko to not make major concessions?
When I spoke to Heiko prior to the C12 TA vote I asked him why 88/90 pay was not brought up to A320 pay he answered with, "No one asked for it in the survey." I'm not saying he told me an untruth (I didn't put that in my survey response), but I spoke to about five MD88 captains who said they did. And when I asked how much giving up ALV+15 was worth in dollars I got a non-answer. Still he's capable, but obviously not overly impressive, IMHO.
Barring the hiring of professional negotiators which would deliver the best results, I'd say we could do a lot worse than Heiko, but hopefully we can do a lot better.
ALPA talks about unity but most of what they do is geared toward apathy so they can do what they do behind closed doors. NO reason meetings shouldn't be video webcast with chat input. That's a game changer for getting the membership involved.
Of course you don't speak to sensitive info just like RA defers during earnings calls. For most info regarding where we need to go, live online is where it should be. Would save a ton of money and be more effective. Broadcast from ATL offices. Put guys up in the training hotel on Virginia ave. Don't blow wads of cash on Chris Ruth and Alcohol. Membership dues money is sacred in my book.
Could also open live polling for major items. If any (including a new MEC) avoid live conferencing in 2015/16 then beware of business as usual that dissuades pilot involvement and encourages everything being decided by a handful of "smartest guys in the room".
Lastly, the notion everything regarding what we want needs to be kept secret is a joke. We've done that these last few passes and it's been a disaster. I think we would be better served talking publicly about the whole lot....what was lost during BK, what is required to get back with interest and be very public about our goals...get everybody on board.
08-04-2015 | 01:39 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,883
Likes: 197
I suspect that most of the best and brightest who you might want to see on the neg committee will chose not to participate. They understand the process and what lies ahead. Why take a cut in pay, work far harder and more then likely end up vilified by the pilot group. I hope we can find some great replacements but I am not holding my breath.
08-04-2015 | 01:53 PM
#36
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
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From: 737 ATL
And if they don't participate, that's a good thing.
We want nothing more to do with the people you consider "best and brightest".
08-04-2015 | 02:01 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
Sailing.
Thank you. You have just articulated the best case for the use of non pilot, paid professionals, to the maximum extent possible.
We send 30M+ a year in dues to alpa. That would pay for 100 $300k/year real life 'experts'.
Who would also pay for their own lunches.
Thank you. You have just articulated the best case for the use of non pilot, paid professionals, to the maximum extent possible.
We send 30M+ a year in dues to alpa. That would pay for 100 $300k/year real life 'experts'.
Who would also pay for their own lunches.
08-04-2015 | 02:17 PM
#38
Thread Starter
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Heiko was a godsend when he was on the scheduling committee. He'd be fantastic there or in contract admin. Not sure he's the right negotiator.
I'll follow the lead from the 8 MEC "no" voters. If they are ok with him, I will be too.
I'll follow the lead from the 8 MEC "no" voters. If they are ok with him, I will be too.
08-04-2015 | 02:28 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,883
Likes: 197
Bob, if you hire professionals and they do their due diligence I am fairly confident you will not like what they tell you they view as achievable.
08-04-2015 | 02:35 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
Sailing....
Okay then.... we are back to firing alpa, keeping the dues money in our pocket, and letting the company draft our pwa.
P.S. with your assertion....did you mean to reveal the fact only the mediocre among us are managing our representation and negotiations?
Okay then.... we are back to firing alpa, keeping the dues money in our pocket, and letting the company draft our pwa.
P.S. with your assertion....did you mean to reveal the fact only the mediocre among us are managing our representation and negotiations?
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